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Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

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Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#21

Post by abritinthebay »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #7
guelo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no competition, it's just monopolies. It's been shown over and over that the first-mover advantage on the web is almost insurmountable because of the network effects.

Which is why Google was the first search engine ever, and before that people just banged rocks together in the general vicinity of phone lines, because any prior search engine would have had an insurmountable first-mover advantage that Google could not possibly have overcome?

While I agree with the general point you are making - the Internet as a whole had not reached a general populace tipping point until after Google was a major player in search.

I think we, as technologically included people, tend to overestimate how old the internet is to most people outside of maybe early email usage.

Also the implosion of companies (like Yahoo) is a factor here. If Yahoo hadn't been really stupid they would still be dominant - and it would have been hard to stop them.

Of course people can overtake when the leader throws the lead... but it's luck and also hard.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#22

Post by adventured »

pavlov wrote: post #12
guelo wrote: post #3

If you look at what has happened in China after Google left, how they were able to quickly grow massive web companies, protectionism seems like a no-brainer for every slightly advanced country. Silicon Valley sees the huge first-mover advantages and is moving as fast as possible to move into every liberalized market. But it makes no sense for a country to allow Silicon Valley to take these industries for themselves.…

I think language and writing system also plays a significant role in the emergence of Chinese native web giants. It's not just about Google getting kicked out; they probably would have had a very hard time adjusting their Western product for the local market. (Google tends to think of their products as "universal", and that doesn't quite work in China.) Look at Russia. They don't have Chinese-style technical or polit…

Of the major economies, Russia is the most directly controlled, more so than China. Putin is a dictator when it comes to most of the economy, he determines everything by fiat. The Russian government seized control, through direct violence or the threat of violence, of nearly every major industry across the whole country. There isn't a single major industry they don't control. You can't do anything of economic consequence without first making a deal with Putin's government.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#23

Post by kennethh »

guelo wrote: post #3

If you look at what has happened in China after Google left, how they were able to quickly grow massive web companies, protectionism seems like a no-brainer for every slightly advanced country. Silicon Valley sees the huge first-mover advantages and is moving as fast as possible to move into every liberalized market. But it makes no sense for a country to allow Silicon Valley to take these industries for themselves.…

There were many search companies in the start and for a long time all of them did the same, google came and delivered a better product and kept innovation. People came and saw the google homesite with a logo, textfield and a button. This is simple we can make this also without knowing all the stuff behind it.

Search is now a mature industry, it is always better to go for the new places where there are no dominant players. Google biggest competitor is not another search engine but Facebook. This is the ways it is supposed to work.

If someone offer you a product cheaper than you can make it yourself, take the offer and find something better to do. Everyone looses by protectionism.

I think everyone forgets the innovation in Ad Words which made it possible for small businesses to thrive. One can now get started with 100$ marketing budget while one before needed 10000$.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#24

Post by johnsea »

pavlov wrote: post #13
tellthetruth1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what any economy with self respect should do. China is so happy now. The last thing you need is an NSA arm operating a monopoly in your country.

China is so happy now. That's an awesome troll factory slogan.

Without knowing details I strongly suppose that China is much happier now than e.g. 25 years ago. Many peoples lives improved. - And regarding not needing a hidden NSA arm, 100 % agreed. Keep them out.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#25

Post by donkeyd »

guelo wrote: post #3

If you look at what has happened in China after Google left, how they were able to quickly grow massive web companies, protectionism seems like a no-brainer for every slightly advanced country. Silicon Valley sees the huge first-mover advantages and is moving as fast as possible to move into every liberalized market. But it makes no sense for a country to allow Silicon Valley to take these industries for themselves.…

> Europe is always fretting about how they need to create their own Silicon Valley but it's easy to do, kick out the Americans! You'll have your own Baidu, Tencent and Alibabas in no time.

People seem to forget that Europe is not a country. Europe does not have a single uniting language. What happens, is that every country starts their own smaller versions and they stay mostly within that country. If they want to move to another country, there's often already a major player there, and they might not have the means to kick them out.

I think the reason that silicon valley is so powerful, is that the initial market is 325 million people who all speak the same language. Once you get the US market, you have the size, name and means to easily start conquering European countries. It's always about scale...

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#26

Post by bootload »

dylanjermiah wrote: post #4
guelo wrote: post #3

If you look at what has happened in China after Google left, how they were able to quickly grow massive web companies, protectionism seems like a no-brainer for every slightly advanced country. Silicon Valley sees the huge first-mover advantages and is moving as fast as possible to move into every liberalized market. But it makes no sense for a country to allow Silicon Valley to take these industries for themselves.…

At the expense of the citizens. Why not let companies compete?

"Why not let companies compete?"

foreign company tax avoidance?

"Technology giant Google last year paid $11.7 million in corp­orate tax to Australian government coffers, on revenue of $438.7m and profits of $58m." ~ http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/google-admits...

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#27

Post by pgeorgi »

viraptor wrote: post #8
guelo wrote: post #3

If you look at what has happened in China after Google left, how they were able to quickly grow massive web companies, protectionism seems like a no-brainer for every slightly advanced country. Silicon Valley sees the huge first-mover advantages and is moving as fast as possible to move into every liberalized market. But it makes no sense for a country to allow Silicon Valley to take these industries for themselves.…

> kick out the Americans How? Great firewall of Europe? Or what exactly are you proposing?

A $6bn penalty (and the promise of more unless you restrict your business a lot) may come a long way.

On the other hand, the article indicates that Microsoft is quite active in the whole investigation, and they're not exactly a European company either...

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#28

Post by klipt »

hansibansi wrote: post #11
JoshTriplett wrote: post #2

> “Dominant companies can’t abuse their dominant position to create advantage in related markets,” she said bluntly, formally accusing Google of exploiting its supremacy in general search to dominate the market for online product searches It seems completely ridiculous to call those two different markets. Finding the most relevant X on the web is fundamentally part of the same market no matter what X is. Now, if they…

First of all, the reason why they differentiate product and general search is, because Google injects a carousel at the top of the page, regardless of its relevancy. Thus, the differentiation. Secondly, the big discussion of abusing its market dominance was ultimately triggered by Yelp and other vertical search engines. Google first ripped of Yelp by scraping their content and then added it to their own Google Places…

I've traveled in countries where I fired up the Yelp app, and it had no results anywhere in the country. But Google maps brought up restaurants etc just fine. So I'm pretty sure Google has data sources other than Yelp. Remember they also acquired Zagat a while back.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#29

Post by hueving »

_pmf_ wrote: post #20
viraptor wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> kick out the Americans How? Great firewall of Europe? Or what exactly are you proposing?

> How? Great firewall of Europe? Or what exactly are you proposing? Forcing them to follow basic rules of fairness is usually enough to keep them out.

"Basic rules of fairness" is meaningless crap that roughly translates to, "we aren't as good so we will keep passing regulations in favor of locals until it's insane for anyone else to try."

Frankly, it wouldn't be that surprising if net neutrality started getting violated in Europe by protectionism laws.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#30

Post by pavlov »

feider wrote: post #17
pavlov wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think language and writing system also plays a significant role in the emergence of Chinese native web giants. It's not just about Google getting kicked out; they probably would have had a very hard time adjusting their Western product for the local market. (Google tends to think of their products as "universal", and that doesn't quite work in China.) Look at Russia. They don't have Chinese-style technical or polit…

Russia does not have political protections? http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/08/06/russia-destroys-seve...

Yes, of course they do, but the mode of operation is very different.

Obviously the Russian government exerts control over Google's Russian operation, but it's not explicit like in China. This has meant Google can continue to operate in Russia without losing face ("do no evil" and all that), whereas it wasn't possible in China.

Your link is about the Russian trade embargo, which is not directly relevant... But it does illustrate the huge difference between Chinese and Russian trade politics. China keeps tight reins internally on content and communications, but wants to ensure the free flow of material imports and exports.

China wouldn't allow an external political disagreement to disturb relations to the extent that Western imports would be banned. At least I can't imagine French cheese being burned by the tonnes in Shanghai...

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