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Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

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Re: Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

#161

Post by brighteyes »

RachelF wrote: post #147
bradford wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that Tinder reduces the "time investment and biological risk" of [sex]. I'm not a Tinder user, how does it reduce the biological risk? wouldn't the risk of an STD be just as great, if not greater, than the status quo?

More Sex is Safer Sex, according to economists, apparently: http://www.sld.cu/galerias/pdf/sitios/revsalud/more_sex_is_s...

An entertaining theory, but I believe it's wishful thinking.

The idea that non-promiscuous people having more sex can reduce STDs is more that the risk to a person having sex is lower, the more non-promiscuous people are options for them. Which is true - if only promiscuous people are looking to have sex with you, then every sex act is more risky.

But the risk for those non-promiscuous people goes up the more sex they have.

STDs exist that are like vampires in modern entertainment - once you become one, you are one forever, and you have a chance of turning others into one as well. Vampirism therefore spreads without limit, and so do STDs, if enough people have sex, for STDs that are incurable are not entirely preventable by condoms.

If people are having a lot more sex due to Tinder, as the anecdotes suggest in this article, there is no doubt that we will see a surge in STDs.

Re: Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

#162

Post by deciplex »

bambax wrote: post #130
zxcvvcxz wrote: post #66

> “For young women the problem in navigating sexuality and relationships is still gender inequality,” says Elizabeth Armstrong, a professor of sociology at the University of Michigan who specializes in sexuality and gender. “Young women complain that young men still have the power to decide when something is going to be serious and when something is not—they can go, ‘She’s girlfriend material, she’s hookup material.’…

Absolutely. Monogamy advantages non-alpha males, to the disadvantage of most women. Women want to mate with the leader of the pack; if all females mate and carry the children of the one leader, all other males don't mate _at all, ever_. Many (not all, but many) animal mammal societies work like this, and there are strong indications humans were wired to work like this too. Some human cultures still use that form of r…

> It's extemely ironic that women would complain about the disappearance of something that was designed to their direct detriment.

So-called 'alpha males' tend to define and shape the culture they're a part of, a lot more than the 'non-alpha' males you just spent ten sentences shitting on. It's interesting you think low-status males just 'invented' monogamy, and in doing so turned the reproductive tables on 20% of men and 100% of women.

I think it's more like, historically speaking, cultures that allowed for more males to have reproductive success, and that therefore gave more males a stake in the society and culture they're a part of, saw more success and out-competed the ones that did not. Which is to say, a society where near-100% of the population have a direct reproductive stake in the future, will be more productive than societies where about 60% of the population does.

Whether this remains true now is an interesting question.

Re: Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

#163

Post by adevine »

rrss1122 wrote: post #47
jokoon wrote: post #13

The hardest part of making those websites work is attracting women on it, and it's not easy. Men are natural predators. In 2008/9 I used a french website "adopt a guy" (adopte un mec). It was really disruptive because it gave women much more powers. Men can only "charm" women, and women must "adopt" men if they want to talk to them. To be honest I was really surprised, it worked so much better. Women were more confid…

I'm not sure it's so obvious, but it does seem like a good idea to try stateside: a dating site where women get all the power.

It's called Bumble.

Re: Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

#164

Post by zxcvvcxz »

deciplex wrote: post #162
bambax wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Monogamy advantages non-alpha males, to the disadvantage of most women. Women want to mate with the leader of the pack; if all females mate and carry the children of the one leader, all other males don't mate _at all, ever_. Many (not all, but many) animal mammal societies work like this, and there are strong indications humans were wired to work like this too. Some human cultures still use that form of r…

> It's extemely ironic that women would complain about the disappearance of something that was designed to their direct detriment. So-called 'alpha males' tend to define and shape the culture they're a part of, a lot more than the 'non-alpha' males you just spent ten sentences shitting on. It's interesting you think low-status males just 'invented' monogamy, and in doing so turned the reproductive tables on 20% of me…

Bingo.

The beta males did not invent monogamy; it evolved as a system whereby more productive abled bodies were invested in the success of a society. These societies proliferated.

> Whether this remains true now is an interesting question.

I believe that when the benefits do not outweigh the cons, a lot of males start checking out of society altogether. See Japan [1] as an example. E.g. I'm going to have to work my ass off throughout life jumping through hoops and then work 80 hour weeks at BigCompanyJapan and then maybe find a woman who I won't have time to spend with? Fuck it, video games, porn, and basement sound better.

For a more US-centric view, check out [2].

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

[2] - http://www.amazon.ca/The-War-Against-Boys-Misguided/dp/06848...

Re: Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

#165

Post by malandrew »

sheepmullet wrote: post #73
michaelchisari wrote: post #58

This article makes a big assumption that women only use sex to get to relationships, and men only use relationships to get to sex. Plenty of women casually date with no interest in serious relationships, for the same reasons that men do: They value their independence, they're focused on their careers, they like to be able to travel or meet new people. It's antiquated to think that women who go on Tinder are hopelessl…

> We break up easier, divorce easier, and refuse to live unhappy lives because the idea of being alone is no longer terrifying. And funnily enough we seem to be a hell of a lot less happy.

That's a broad sweeping generalization. Does it have any basis in fact? Are people more depressed today than 10-20 years ago, or do we diagnose more people as depressed because we like labels? And if we actually are more unhappy today, is that cause attributable to dating issues, or is it attributable to some other shifts in society like the changing nature of jobs and financial stability?

Re: Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

#166

Post by chongli »

mjevans wrote: post #136
justboxing wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a woman doesn't want to feel like an option, shouldn't she stay far away from Tinder? Yes she could, or better still, she could get Bumble, which is the female version of Tinder, where the women get to keep guys as options :) http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/02/bumble-is-exactly-like-tind...

Reversing the sides of the table does not make the 'game' fair.

It doesn't really reverse the sides of the table though. The power will always be in the hands of those who are most attractive and with the least need for commitment.

Re: Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

#167

Post by zxcvvcxz »

fredkbloggs wrote: post #126
zxcvvcxz wrote: post #66

> “For young women the problem in navigating sexuality and relationships is still gender inequality,” says Elizabeth Armstrong, a professor of sociology at the University of Michigan who specializes in sexuality and gender. “Young women complain that young men still have the power to decide when something is going to be serious and when something is not—they can go, ‘She’s girlfriend material, she’s hookup material.’…

> We had a period of time where strict monogamy throughout adulthood dominated I strongly disbelieve this, and I think most historians would agree with me. We had a period of time in which what was written and widely disseminated in the polite (read: legal, and likely to be preserved) media did not include references to anything other than strict monogamy. When such references were included, they were usually scandal…

Yes, perhaps it was mainly the appearance and expectation (and aspirational goal) of monogamy that dominated. Sure. I don't think that detracts from the following thesis: namely that traditional social structures are eroding as a result of tipping the balance in society towards female-centric sexual strategy (as explained in my OP). I quoted the new low in marriage statistic, for example.

The reason this is significant, whether it is actual monogamy or perceived monogamy that is dying, is because a lot of men will begin losing their incentive to be invested in society (the latter, the hope of monogamy and reproduction, still provides incentive). I'd also wager that a lot more women in older ages (40+) are less happy; actually there's evidence for this too, [1]. I'd also wager that the unhappiest are those who are unmarried or are married to partners they find significantly less desirable than previous hook ups in their younger years.

[1] - http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/astounding-increase-in-an...

Re: Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

#168

Post by bm1362 »

sheepmullet wrote: post #73
michaelchisari wrote: post #58

This article makes a big assumption that women only use sex to get to relationships, and men only use relationships to get to sex. Plenty of women casually date with no interest in serious relationships, for the same reasons that men do: They value their independence, they're focused on their careers, they like to be able to travel or meet new people. It's antiquated to think that women who go on Tinder are hopelessl…

> We break up easier, divorce easier, and refuse to live unhappy lives because the idea of being alone is no longer terrifying. And funnily enough we seem to be a hell of a lot less happy.

This seems like a pretty subjective opinion

Re: Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

#169

Post by bm1362 »

beatpanda wrote: post #50

Boy, that sure is a parallel universe. Did you know striking up a conversation with a stranger in real life can still get you laid? Less efficient, I know, but if you're already saving so much time replacing food with Soylent you should have some wiggle room.

I found that Google Hangouts through my Glass allow me to date casually and launch my startup with no time deficit.
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