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Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

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111–120 of 179 posts

Re: Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

#111
Non-competes are the most anti-American, anti-business, and anti-innovation devices ever created. They are protectionism. They need to end everywhere.

Employment will only be more fruitful with freedom to create and innovate. It encourages companies to pay people with skills in their field. As the country moves to project/entrepreneur based contractual employment this is actually a big issue.

Re: Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

#112
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason some employers want them is because they don't want to put the effort into building up an employees skills just to have them move to a different company right when they become useful. When you are an employee under these laws, you tend to put a lot more thought into choosing a company you would be willing to stay with as long as you are interested in that section of the industry.

It's a valid concern - that by training your employees and giving them experience, you make then so valuable that they can leave. I fight this problem several ways: I turn our services into a products so that I can onboard people quickly and drive down costs - for example instead of telling each employees to setup a backup on a server, I had one employee make a script that we can deploy on all new servers. By turning…

Please tell me the name of your company, because I don't EVER want to make the mistake of working for you.

Re: Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

#113
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of stuff is only important if you spend all of your money on stuff. With a tech salary, the cost of food going up 15% should be nothing compared to the rent you will save.

You think the cost of food is only 15% more? That's funny.. still not enough to offset the cost of housing in SF though. Been looking at moving out to San Jose (to work in Los Gatos, that's expensive to live in), and need to make about 75% more to offset the cost of housing and taxes than I do in Phoenix. I totally understand why some large companies would put their IT hubs in Texas or Arizona now. Relative to the co…

What are you talking about? I was pointing out how expensive SF is and how you might hit a 15% higher food cost in Hawaii than SF. But that will be offset by the massive amount you will save in rent.

Re: Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

#114
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a valid concern - that by training your employees and giving them experience, you make then so valuable that they can leave. I fight this problem several ways: I turn our services into a products so that I can onboard people quickly and drive down costs - for example instead of telling each employees to setup a backup on a server, I had one employee make a script that we can deploy on all new servers. By turning…

> I fight this problem several ways This is completely, totally, and nonsensically evil that I'm not sure even where to begin. Supposing your company hired me and I knew this was the opinion of anyone who worked in management I would be polishing my résumé my first day on the job. This is the best way to make sure that the only people working for you are mindless drones and your HR office is a revolving door rather t…

There are companies which love all-around workers who can pick up all shits tossed from anyone. You will have to deal with everything from setting up a website to debugging a Windows device driver, and probably fixing a motor fan occasionally. They will tell you that can contribute to your value as an employee and help your job prospects. But the truth is the management does not have the skill and interest in task division. All they can do is sort of 'people skill' to make you voluntarily stay overtime and get the shit done ASAP.

I would rather not having that kind of job prospects.

Re: Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your problem is when someone you have a good relationship with is seduced by something hotter and sexier.

I can see why's that would be frustrating, but my employees are not "mine" - so they are free to go at any time and hence, I need to treat them well. If an employee is seduced by an offer that doesn't work out - they can (and have) come back and can bring back what they learned. One of the thing that I learned from such exits an re-entryies is that money is not always the best motivator - I used to run really lean to…

Thanks for expressing that point of view.

Re: Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

#116
post #3

Wish NY did the same. In NY they get to own all your ideas both at work and "off the clock."

I cross/line out any portion of employment agreements that say such things... I've never had any push back about it.

I did cross out a bunch of non-compete and some ridiculous post-employment IP claim provisions and refused to take an offer from a midsize NYC hedge fund which constantly self-proclaims as "technology company applying talents to the domain of finance". Their contract was pure evil by California (and reasonable people) standards and I realized I wouldn't be able to negotiate my way out of those clauses (even though they seemed to have liked me enough in negotiating the salary). I made it clear to them that this is not a tech company's behavior. It was a hard decision for me to make considering my situation at the time and the offer's $$$ compared to SV big cos, but I eventually realized that someone should take a stance against this form of slavery and we are responsible for not letting this crap perpetuate. If more people pay the cost of saying no, they'll have to cave eventually.

(throwaway because I don't like admitting I interviewed at a hedgefund publicly on the internet.)

Re: Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

#117
post #65
post #49

A company I worked for recently had non-competes and non-solicit clauses. A new employees was negotiating their contract, and I told them to push back against the NC/CS clauses. I spoke with the management and asked why they needed them, "to prevent problems" they said. I pointed out that they didn't have the non-competes for their employees in California and asked if they had problems there. They weren't aware of an…

because lawyers...

Not just funny, but true. When you invite a lawyer into a discussion, what is most straightforward way for them to show they are contributing? More clauses.

My firm's done negotiations with banks, and they all do the same vanilla business. Some have lawyers very close to the process, and some keep them at a distance. Of course there's always more back-and-forth when the lawyers are there, even though the business is the same for everyone. They try to sneak in ridiculous clauses and fight you on everything.

Re: Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

#118
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I fight this problem several ways This is completely, totally, and nonsensically evil that I'm not sure even where to begin. Supposing your company hired me and I knew this was the opinion of anyone who worked in management I would be polishing my résumé my first day on the job. This is the best way to make sure that the only people working for you are mindless drones and your HR office is a revolving door rather t…

I wasn't clear enough - by investing time and energy into simplifying our mundane services into a product, we're able to expand into more interesting projects - and we have the profitability to do charity work and blue sky work. I'm certain that there are employees that like rote work, but for me, I can't stand it and project that onto others.

What I reacted to was the suggestion that

> it also has the side effect of diminishing job prospects

is a good or desirable thing.

Re: Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always found it weird when employers wanted to start a relationship entirely adversarially. I also found it weird when businesses identified employees as a significant and therefore negative cost center. Employees are life blood. If they aren't, get rid of them and get new life blood - but being so standoffish and adversarial is the antithesis of what an employer/employee relationship should be.

Just to argue the counterpoint, I prefer my employer to be up-front about the legal side. Our relationship is adversarial - mutually beneficial, yes, but also adversarial. Except for possibly in the case of a tiny company where I'm personal friends with the management, they're not going to be loyal to me in any sort of pinch. It'd be great if we could trust each other, but that's not how business works, and if I'm no…

Loyalty is not an anathema to a non trivial company, but it needs to be a core value practised across the board not just in part of the firm. It's just like altruism has been shown to be a benefit in natural selection (somewhat counter-intuitively), being a loyal employer has all sorts of benefits to the company. The problem is that it doesn't work with the aim to be a unicorn - you can't grow massively, you can't risk the company on a play. Those "plodding" companies a step removed from the white heat of capitalism, the ones whose owners are "quite rich enough, thankyou" and don't sell, the ones whose employees do spent decades working there.

Re: Hawaii Bans Non-Compete and Non-Solicit Clauses in High-Tech Employment

#120
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simple. Don't sign a contract with ridiculous clauses like that. Demand for good engineers is high enough that it won't prevent you from finding a job.

Most people who apply to jobs are not seen as "good engineers," they are hazed in the interview process. Meanwhile, the bank account is draining.

If you're an engineer with an employment contract in front of you, you're a good engineer. You can get a job elsewhere.

I would dare say it's worth going into 1-2 months of debt to work where you're respected versus staying in the black and working where you're not.

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