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“Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

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Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#51

Post by dhimes »

trezor wrote: post #45
dhimes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google isn't exactly easy when it comes to dispute resolution.

Does google even have non-automated solutions if you ever get in trouble?

I was able to get a voice once. It was just sheer luck. She was very nice, but two things happened: they had just transitioned to their new adwords format, she was indicating something about it, and I pointed out that some feature was missing (like "see all ads" or something... I don't quite remember). Within minutes (same phone conversation) that was fixed.

But my problem remains. I sell an educational software product, but I get lumped in with the "essay farms" that sell complete papers to students. So every time I change an ad... even just the price... I have to go through a lengthy review process.

I asked her to institute some sort of trust system-- with occasional spot-checks, of course, to allow my ads to come up in reasonable time. Even my grocery store has a payment trust system!

Still waiting for that system.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#52

Post by malloreon »

trezor wrote: post #45
dhimes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google isn't exactly easy when it comes to dispute resolution.

Does google even have non-automated solutions if you ever get in trouble?

They do if you're a big spender.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#53

Post by grayprog »

shin_lao wrote: post #49
eli wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'd like you to point out the law that says all contracts have to be written. With a few specific exceptions, they don't. Sure, you should get them in writing and signed to cover your ass, but an email contract is still perfectly valid in most cases. Just like a "handshake agreement" can be legally binding.

Which country are you referring to? In France this is not the case. If there is a disagreement and nothing is written down you're screwed. edit: I've checked up a bit. There is such a thing as "oral contract" in French law but it's very strict and limited to certain transactions. The legal definition of contract doesn't say if it must be written or not ( http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?cidTexte=...…

The point with this case is that the first 2 reps told me it's ok to fax emails. And then they closed the account.

And when I faxed signed paperes nobody wanted to look at them. Although they said "go ahead" and send.

The real problem is that the support personnel are not the one making decisions, are not telling the same, and you can't talk to the people who really do decide.

Plus, their action of closing my ability to receive payment (and provide service to my customers) without any warning is an extremely aggressive sanction, for no reason.

Let's close his account and then see if he was doing legit business. In the mean time, "we're sorry for any inconvenience this may caused you". When you're doing a 2-week promotion, getting an account closed even for a week for "inspection" is not an option. After 2 weeks we were back to normal low activity, without the bundle.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#54

Post by ajross »

ErrantX wrote: post #4

I've had similar problems with Paypal accounts in the past too. Although it's an absolute joke I have found they only respond to formal legal threats. At one point they limited my account, with a couple of grand in it, in the same way (nothing in, nothing out, wait 180 days). So I sent them a letter basically saying "release my money or your staring down the barrel of a legal gun" and listed a whole load of lost earn…

It's actually not so terribly dumb. The point here is to prevent fraud. People who take the time to credibly threaten legal action are, I strongly suspect, much less likely to be engaged in fraud. Real criminals would just walk away from the cash (lest they attract more attention) and put up another site on another PayPal account.

It's more than just squeaky wheel syndrome -- PayPal is using the context of your communication to determine who you are.

Whether that's ethical or not is a separate question. But it seems logical to me.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#55

Post by eam »

jmonegro wrote: post #38

I once had my PayPal account "temporarily" suspended under similar circumstances. Usually, all you have to do is fax them/upload copies of documents verifying your identity and you should be set within a week, if you're persistent and diligent.

Did you not read the entire story?

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#56

Post by ladyada »

You may be able to avoid the biggest problem - which is money 'trapped' in the account by depositing all your funds, daily, into your bank account. Its called Daily Sweep. Wait, you've never heard of it? Oh yes, thats because not only is it -not- advertised or mentioned anywhere on the site but to activate the -option- it you need to call up on the phone!

But its quite easy to do once you know about it. With your biz paypal account call up and request activation of Daily Sweep. If the first person says they dont know what you mean keep asking, eventually someone will admit it (only took us 2 tries!) and set up the option. Now in your account activate it under your prefs.

Every day, the earnings will be Swept into your bank account, just like a Merchant Account. No guarantees they wont try to, say, pull money from your bank account tho...

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#57

Post by shin_lao »

grayprog wrote: post #53
shin_lao wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country are you referring to? In France this is not the case. If there is a disagreement and nothing is written down you're screwed. edit: I've checked up a bit. There is such a thing as "oral contract" in French law but it's very strict and limited to certain transactions. The legal definition of contract doesn't say if it must be written or not ( http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?cidTexte=...…

The point with this case is that the first 2 reps told me it's ok to fax emails. And then they closed the account. And when I faxed signed paperes nobody wanted to look at them. Although they said "go ahead" and send. The real problem is that the support personnel are not the one making decisions, are not telling the same, and you can't talk to the people who really do decide. Plus, their action of closing my ability…

I'm sorry for your problem, it shows that they are not well organized, but as I said in my first comment the best is to work with your bank for online payment.

You can offer paypal as an additional payment system, but really, work with your bank. You know the guy/girl there, and they care more about your business than paypal, because your good business means money in their vaults.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#59

Post by jmonegro »

eam wrote: post #55
jmonegro wrote: post #38

I once had my PayPal account "temporarily" suspended under similar circumstances. Usually, all you have to do is fax them/upload copies of documents verifying your identity and you should be set within a week, if you're persistent and diligent.

Did you not read the entire story?

I did, which is why I said "usually". This happened to me twice, and I've never had to go through so much trouble. Furthermore, as to letting PayPal know about a sale, it _is_ possible.

The first time I had an incident was because of a sale I ran, and PayPal limited the account I got it fixed in a week, just in time for a sale of another product. This time, I emailes PayPal telling them about the previous story and asking if there would be a problem. There was, and my account got limited for a second time.

What I did then was, instead of submitting documents, I uploaded a screenshot of my email correspondence with PayPal, and their response. One or two days later, my account was free.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#60

Post by bdonlan »

eli wrote: post #43
shin_lao wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like you to exhibit cases where e-mail was ok to grant a copyright permission. My lawyers always told me the following: everything formal must be fax, snail mail or signed with an electronic certificate (I declare and pay my taxes with the later for example). Copyright handover is not just "ok we're going to buy you 2 computers" kind of e-mail.

And I'd like you to point out the law that says all contracts have to be written. With a few specific exceptions, they don't. Sure, you should get them in writing and signed to cover your ass, but an email contract is still perfectly valid in most cases. Just like a "handshake agreement" can be legally binding.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap2.html#204

"A transfer of copyright ownership, other than by operation of law, is not valid unless an instrument of conveyance, or a note or memorandum of the transfer, is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner's duly authorized agent."

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