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Phoneless in Paris

bbc.co.uk

11–15 of 15 posts

Re: Phoneless in Paris

#11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Roma criminality"... "they have no self-love"... Sorry, but this is xenophobia, and Europeans are better than Americans at it. The systematic exclusion of groups from the mainstream creates extra-legal behaviors (or "culture", as you say) to make ends meet. Plus, Europeans love a scapegoat; it's part of a long, illiberal tradition on the continent.

> Europeans are better than Americans at it Oh please, Ok, let's talk about the racism against blacks in US before talking about the alleged European xenophobia.

It never pays to generalize about a culture/race/society not ones own. Such effort gains little more than bigotry.

Re: Phoneless in Paris

#12
post #4

The guy was really really lucky, especially in Paris. I lost my wallet twice , but fortunately since I used to live in a small city (less than 100 000 inhabitants) I got it back. But yeah, the subway or the train in Paris is absolutely not safe in general, avoid it if you can, rent a car or a bike, you'll enjoy the city way more if you are a tourist that way. The Roma criminality certainly has to do with poverty, but…

"Roma criminality"... "they have no self-love"... Sorry, but this is xenophobia, and Europeans are better than Americans at it. The systematic exclusion of groups from the mainstream creates extra-legal behaviors (or "culture", as you say) to make ends meet. Plus, Europeans love a scapegoat; it's part of a long, illiberal tradition on the continent.

This might prove unpopular but why can we never call a spade a spade?

In the area I lived in London for 15 years there were numerous traveller communities. Out of the 50+ I met in person over that time period how many do you think were pleasant? About 4. The rest tried to rob us, intimidate us, bully us, outright harm us, usually all for no reason except, "we are not them". They near literally destroy whatever area they decide to live in. The youngest person to pull a knife on a group of us was an 8yo traveller child. They just don't give a fuck in any sense.

I agree that they behave like this, in part, because they do not feel included as part of "normal" society. But I have to ask: Why in hell would anyone want these people in their society when they behave like this? And so continues the endless circle of crime against society and societies hate against them (which really... is justified?).

So we have this endless circle. To me the question is: Why don't they break this circle? Society offers them help, education, support in varying amounts which is there. They refuse to take it, because they do not appear to want to live under societies rules.

Then you have others come along and say "Well you're Xenophobic". Really? I'm Xenophobic, despite working alongside people of all races, religions, creeds with no problem at all? All because I don't want to be harmed and have my home life made a misery by a shitty person who feels the law and societies rules do not apply to them in any way?

If anything, isn't it they who are xenophobic? As they outright refuse to assimilate into the society they live in in any way, shape or form.

I'll never automatically hate a person because of their birth, that's incredibly stupid. But certain groups I'll be wary of, until they prove which direction (good/bad) they lean, because past experience of that group has taught me to be (and isn't that their fault?). To not be wary seems blind and itself... incredibly stupid.

Re: Phoneless in Paris

#13
post #10

Why is this behavior tolerated across all of Europe? Seems like they run the same scams in each country. Why don't the police run stings and arrest them? Or is it because the police are also on vacation when the tourists come in summer?

Well in Belgium it's because they arrest them. The cops put down their information at the station, and they are out 3 hours later. MAYBE later they are summoned for trial, months later. But good luck by then.

Re: Phoneless in Paris

#14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Roma criminality"... "they have no self-love"... Sorry, but this is xenophobia, and Europeans are better than Americans at it. The systematic exclusion of groups from the mainstream creates extra-legal behaviors (or "culture", as you say) to make ends meet. Plus, Europeans love a scapegoat; it's part of a long, illiberal tradition on the continent.

> Europeans are better than Americans at it Oh please, Ok, let's talk about the racism against blacks in US before talking about the alleged European xenophobia.

Let's talk about both!

Re: Phoneless in Paris

#15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Roma criminality"... "they have no self-love"... Sorry, but this is xenophobia, and Europeans are better than Americans at it. The systematic exclusion of groups from the mainstream creates extra-legal behaviors (or "culture", as you say) to make ends meet. Plus, Europeans love a scapegoat; it's part of a long, illiberal tradition on the continent.

This might prove unpopular but why can we never call a spade a spade? In the area I lived in London for 15 years there were numerous traveller communities. Out of the 50+ I met in person over that time period how many do you think were pleasant? About 4. The rest tried to rob us, intimidate us, bully us, outright harm us, usually all for no reason except, "we are not them". They near literally destroy whatever area t…

Well, I think you have to look at these cases individually. The same thing you write here echos what is written by conservative commentators about poor African American communities in the US. Of course, such commentary conveniently excludes the way poverty and unemployment is structural to the US economy and that there are systematic forms of racism embedded in the US legal code. These empirical realities force communities of color to take part in extra-legal activities and the violence that comes along with those activities. All of a sudden, "normal" society - as you put it - looks like a society of oppressors and "these people" - as you put it - look more like the oppressed than a bunch of ne'er do wells.
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