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I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

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Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#41
post #38
post #34

LOL. I lived through the first VR hype bubble, and it's pretty remarkable how similar this is to my recollection of VR back then -- the only difference is that at the time, the goofy, uncomfortable headset was tethered to a refrigerator-sized SGI machine at the science museum, and there was no hope of getting it at home. Instead, we got the Lawnmower Man on VHS. It sounds like technology has advanced enough that we h…

Do I really have to be the one to say it. .. the four (or more) letter word starting with "p"?

Heh. That's an area where quality input devices become even more essential, no?

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#42
post #2

I agree with this article. We bought a Oculus DK2 for work[1]. It functions. It's cool for an hour or two. But no one's touched the DK2 since I wrote that article. There's simply nothing to do with it, and what you can do is better done with a monitor screen. The DK2 is incredibly low resolution. You can easily see the pixels. I was able to get a sense of presence once or twice, when driving down a straight in iRacin…

Well of course there's not much to do with it now (other than develop for it), since no good VR sets have come to market yet (this was a developer kit you're talking about), and no games have shipped for them. It's like saying "yeah I've got a PlayStation5 developer kit the other day.. there's not much to do with it".

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#43
This article is pure distillation of everything that's wrong with VR -- not the tech, but the people who are thinking about it and trying to build it. Specifically youngish white male gamer nerds.

I want to write about this more at length -- maybe I'll put something on my blog or on Medium or something -- but I also tried VR, and the most interesting aspect of the experience was just how clueless all of the gamer types at the gaming company office I went to were about what other people out there in the world would want from the experience. Here is what I mean.

The most impressive and important part of the otherwise crappy VR demo I sat through was a crudely rendered virtual media room with a big screen TV, where I was placed on a virtual couch to watch some movie clips. Why did this rock my world?

It rocked my world because I happen to know that it would cost me $40K at least to add a media room on to my house, and if I could buy $5K worth of VR gear for my wife and I and get pretty much the same effect, then that would be a major win for us (and a loss for Austin's contractors and architects).

In other words, gaming is the /least/ interesting thing about VR. VR has the potential to disrupt the architecture and building trades. In the real world, people like to have access to spaces that they can do various non-gaming things in, and they have historically been willing to pay quite a bit of money to have those spaces built. VR will drive the cost of adding those spaces to one's home/office/trailer/pad/etc. down towards zero.

I tried explaining this to the crowd of young white male gamer nerds gathered around the pizza station after the demo, and they sort of chuckled at this boring old guy rambling about building contractors (I'm pretty sure none of them owned a house) and went back to wracking their brains about what, to them, is the single most important thing in the world: how are we going to make a frigging GAME with this?

I know these guys, because prior to my wife + 3 kids + house I was one of them: a young white male gamer nerd. But at this point I've been around the block enough to recognize that the number of people interested in blasting virtual aliens or orcs is a few orders of magnitude lower than the number of people who want to just hang out on the deck of a mega-yacht at sundown, or have coffee once again in an exact replica of a Parisian cafe that they used to frequent in the 60's, or retreat from their kids and life into a virtual media room and watch Game of Thrones on a virtual big-screen TV.

Note that I'm not slamming Jeff Atwood, who for all I know owns a house and who thinks about many things other than leveling up and collecting loot. I'm just saying that he has thoroughly missed the point of VR, and in a super common and troubling way.

I'm not an SJW by any stretch, but VR needs women, and black people, and old people, and in fact it will get them because the market will demand it. That's because VR isn't the next Atari 2600 or Kinect -- it's the next TV, and the next Internet. Are today's Internet addicts hooked on MUDs or MOOs? No, they aren't. And tomorrow's VR junkies won't give a rip about games.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#44
post #13

Jeff is speaking from a position of not having tried the good stuff that delivers a sense of 'presence' in the virtual world. That is the game changer, the thing that is making people believe something special is on the way. When he says "I have experienced modern VR. A lot. I've tried both the Oculus DK1, the Oculus DK2." he's just flatly wrong, he hasn't. Those headsets at not modern VR and using them as the refere…

To be fair, most of the people who are excited about VR (including myself) have been that excited already about DK1 and DK2, so your comment feels like it's just moving goalposts without seriously engaging the article. Personally, I'm very excited about VR. But I know for a fact that other people have tried the same gear that I've tried and have been way less excited about it. Overall, I'd say it's a good thing to se…

I don't disagree completely but underlying the growing excitement was for the past 18 months (since Abrash, etc. started talking about VR and presence as something incredible, game-changing and deliverable in around 2 years) was in large part based on the pace things were advancing and what was in store for a consumer release.

Plus many of his specific points are just so temporary in nature, like resolution complaints, heaviness/comfort, tethered, form factor, etc. These will be solved in just the next few years.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#45

This article is pure distillation of everything that's wrong with VR -- not the tech, but the people who are thinking about it and trying to build it. Specifically youngish white male gamer nerds. I want to write about this more at length -- maybe I'll put something on my blog or on Medium or something -- but I also tried VR, and the most interesting aspect of the experience was just how clueless all of the gamer typ…

I have three kids for the record. And trust me, if VR isn't doing a good job of making a believable aliens-are-destroying-your-house game, it isn't going to be any more believable when it is just rendering your house with bigger rooms.

That's the problem.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#46
A lot of his complaints seem to be imposed by constraints on current consumer spending - basically, surely people won't be bothered to buy a VR rig if they have a current gen console or spend more than they would on a tablet.

I disagree. So much of consumer electronics (TVs/phones/tablets) has become cheap enough that I think the usual demographics with disposable income won't mind making a splash if Oculus is truly offering a new experience. I've almost been disappointed by going to Best Buy in recent years and not even seeing anything especially cool/desirable there.

This generation also doesn't place a lot of value on traditional aspirational purchases (eg you'll see a lot of well to do yuppies in Priuses or Subarus rather than the BMW that was a rite of passage in previous generations) - if anything, I think this may lead people to massively underestimate how much millennials will spend on novel/innovative big ticket items.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#47
post #9

Jeff compares the DK2 to Quake resolution (640x480), but I think that's quite misleading. Quake looks terrible, to modern eyes, but that has little to do with the resolution, and much more with the low polygon count, low quality textures and the lack of lighting effects. Run Far Cry 4 at 640x480, and it'll look much better.

I do not think Far Cry 4 would look very good at 640x480. Imagine it full screen on even a modest 20" monitor at that resolution.

There are tricks, yes, but big pixels are a fundamental problem until you reach a "good enough" size. Sort of like when the iPhone 4 and retina was released. We are very, very far from retina resolution in VR.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#48
It says something that we're writing blog posts about, "This early version of tech didn't absolutely blow my mind"

I mean, this is still early-iPod-days of this tech. You could look at it, especially after hearing hype about the iPod, and say something like, "No wireless, less space than a Nomad, lame." http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ip...

Anecdotally, I've found that looking at anything from a perspective of, "People are raving about this, does it live up to the hype?" always makes me respect the thing less.

That doesn't make it less transformative. It just means you didn't like it as much in the beginning. The criticisms are warranted, but that doesn't sway what the future of VR looks like for me.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#49

I'm most excited for VR headsets to replace my desktop monitors. Infinitely sized displays in 360 degrees around me...I think that's where the real future is for these things. And doing that won't require nearly the hardware power that a 3D game does. The main thing holding it back is that the displays in the Oculus are still a little too low-resolution to make text 100% crisp and clear. I fully expect that a couple…

This is the dream for me too. We're a couple k more lines of resolution on cell phone screens to making it happen though.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#50
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, most of the people who are excited about VR (including myself) have been that excited already about DK1 and DK2, so your comment feels like it's just moving goalposts without seriously engaging the article. Personally, I'm very excited about VR. But I know for a fact that other people have tried the same gear that I've tried and have been way less excited about it. Overall, I'd say it's a good thing to se…

I don't disagree completely but underlying the growing excitement was for the past 18 months (since Abrash, etc. started talking about VR and presence as something incredible, game-changing and deliverable in around 2 years) was in large part based on the pace things were advancing and what was in store for a consumer release. Plus many of his specific points are just so temporary in nature, like resolution complaint…

I think it is very unlikely any of that will be solved in a few years.

For example resolution, arguably the easiest one to attack, when we are talking 4k res at 120fps, that is barely possible on the highest end PC rigs today with 2 or even 3 video cards in SLI.

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