I Tried VR and It Was Just OK • Hacker News Board

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#21

Post by coldpie » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:18 PM UTC

mkeblx wrote: post #13

Jeff is speaking from a position of not having tried the good stuff that delivers a sense of 'presence' in the virtual world. That is the game changer, the thing that is making people believe something special is on the way. When he says "I have experienced modern VR. A lot. I've tried both the Oculus DK1, the Oculus DK2." he's just flatly wrong, he hasn't. Those headsets at not modern VR and using them as the refere…

I hope you're right, and I'm really excited to see what Oculus and Valve have coming out. Honestly, I would dedicate the space in my basement for Valve's setup if it proves to work well; I'm really excited about VR.

But I'm in the same position as Jeff: I've tried the DK2 and it's not there yet. But at the same time, back when it came out, journalists were all over the DK2, saying it was revolutionary and all sorts of stuff. And it just isn't. Maybe the consumer version will be, but the gap between my experience with the DK2 and what journalists sold the DK2 to be leaves me skeptical.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#22

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:19 PM UTC

moron4hire wrote: post #15

So his problem is that pre-release, AAA game software for pre-release hardware is nothing more than tech demos. And bloggers. But let's not get too far off topic discussing his own contributions to the "I need to get my voice included, too!" problems with blogging-as-a-career-move. Let's just stick to the tech. It's disappointing to see someone who has such a prominent position in the developer community not just com…

VR is going to be the thing to save the Rainforest

This is proving the article's point about excessive hype.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#23

Post by coldpie » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:20 PM UTC

mkeblx wrote: post #18

richmarr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... delivers a sense of 'presence' in the virtual world I keep re-reading your comment and it keeps getting stuck in my marketing filter. What do you mean by a sense of presence?

Michael Abrash of Valve now at Oculus giving a basic description: https://youtu.be/G-2dQoeqVVo?t=3m14s It's parts of your lower brain aligning to convince you you're in a virtual world, and while it is a spectrum you really need a high end headset to experience it. Abrash himself mainly dismissed VR's potential prior to experiencing it.

Slides (PDF) from that talk, for those who prefer text to video:

http://media.steampowered.com/apps/abrashblog/MAbrash%20GDC2...

I didn't know he'd move on to work at Oculus. Interesting.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#24

Post by hedgehog » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:20 PM UTC

The Vive's approach for the controllers works really well and it sounds like it'll be shipping this year. It's strange that he doesn't mention it. I've tried a bunch of the other attempts going back to primitive university lab stuff in the 90s that took up two SGI Octanes, the Vive is the first thing I've seen that seems good enough to build apps on. I think the biggest problem initially is going to be figuring out what the killer app is. In terms of comparisons with the growth curve of mobile VR might look the same but we're much closer to the AMPS brick phone stage not the iPhone.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#25

Post by coldpie » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:25 PM UTC

moron4hire wrote: post #15

So his problem is that pre-release, AAA game software for pre-release hardware is nothing more than tech demos. And bloggers. But let's not get too far off topic discussing his own contributions to the "I need to get my voice included, too!" problems with blogging-as-a-career-move. Let's just stick to the tech. It's disappointing to see someone who has such a prominent position in the developer community not just com…

That's not how I read this article. It seemed to be more about tempering expectations about a highly hyped (see: your post) product.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#26

Post by dcre » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:26 PM UTC

richmarr wrote: post #14

mkeblx wrote: post #13

Jeff is speaking from a position of not having tried the good stuff that delivers a sense of 'presence' in the virtual world. That is the game changer, the thing that is making people believe something special is on the way. When he says "I have experienced modern VR. A lot. I've tried both the Oculus DK1, the Oculus DK2." he's just flatly wrong, he hasn't. Those headsets at not modern VR and using them as the refere…

> ... delivers a sense of 'presence' in the virtual world I keep re-reading your comment and it keeps getting stuck in my marketing filter. What do you mean by a sense of presence?

I hesitate to call presence a buzzword because I've felt it (if only briefly), but then again big data is both real and a buzzword, so I guess presence can be too. However, I haven't seen the latter used in a bullshit way very often yet. Usually the people who use the word are pretty serious about VR and cautious about saying they felt presence.

I like the example of standing at the edge of something in VR and feeling the feeling you get in your stomach when you stand on the edge of a tall building. This happened to me in part of the HTC/Valve Vive demo where you stand on a shipwreck underwater.

I think more subtle examples are more interesting, though. E.g., when you're just standing in a room in VR, and you shift your weight slightly from one foot to the other (which moves your head slightly, of course), and the lighting is just right and something clicks in your head and for a second you forget you have a headset on — it's a bizarre feeling and very cool.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#27

Post by moron4hire » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:30 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #22

moron4hire wrote: post #15

So his problem is that pre-release, AAA game software for pre-release hardware is nothing more than tech demos. And bloggers. But let's not get too far off topic discussing his own contributions to the "I need to get my voice included, too!" problems with blogging-as-a-career-move. Let's just stick to the tech. It's disappointing to see someone who has such a prominent position in the developer community not just com…

VR is going to be the thing to save the Rainforest This is proving the article's point about excessive hype.

You pick that quote and not the Mars one? Because that particular reference is already happening. Excessive hype is when Magic Leap spends two years lighting up the tech press without showing any hard tech to people not locked up under an NDA. You can experience, right now, being physically in a certain place, seeing it on TV, and being in it virtually. VR really is closer to being there, even in simple forms like Google Cardboard, than it is to watching TV. As time progresses, the hardware improvements will push it even closer. No, it won't be perfectly like being there, but not everyone can (or in some cases should) be there. VR is already showing people things they probably wouldn't have seen without it.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#28

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:36 PM UTC

saint_fiasco wrote: post #20

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #10

My only disagreement is with the "gloves" idea. I thought we learned from the Wii that motion controls without force feedback is anti-immersion. Imagine "firing" a 12 gauge shotgun and seeing considerable recoil in VR while your hands stay still. Without haptic feedback I'll have to rely on imagination for the full experience, which I thought video games were supposed to skip.

Maybe they could make it so you have to mimic the recoil motion yourself, with your own hands, to fire your shotgun. You would have to make sure to always turn the safety of your shotgun before putting it away, otherwise if try to quick-draw you will shoot yourself in the foot. edit: grammar

"I totally shot him! The game didn't register the motion at all! This sucks. I'm getting the controller."

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#29

Post by DDLawson » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:37 PM UTC

So refreshing to see an article about VR that's sole purpose isn't to build hype for VR!

My only experience with VR was trying the Samsung Gear headset in Schipol airport. It was a new, exciting experience for the five minutes I got to try it out. I imagine that Oculus Rift will be a much better experience, seeing as it's not based off a mobile phone but built solely for a VR immersion.

Despite how relatively amazing my first VR experience was, I can quite clearly see what the author means about it not 'revolutionising' this and that industry upon release. But I feel the most important aspect is that the technology is in its early infancy and, just like the television/consoles that came before it, will take a lot of time, innovation and behavioural changes to truly break into the general public and make a difference across different industries.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#30

Post by sireat » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:39 PM UTC

Counterpoint:

My friend's architecture office has Occulus, and everyone, clients and architects love it.

I asked her if anyone experienced any headaches or seasickness but since there is no action happening just a visual walk through buildings it seems side effects are minimized.

So for architecture Occulus fills a nice niche.