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Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones

online.wsj.com

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Re: Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones

#31

Post by ashwinl »

As @noonespecial alludes to, some of the comments on the WSJ site and (less so) here are made incognizant of the complexities of the systems and timelines of procurement, testing and deployment.

@tsally the DEF CON suggestion is a good point. Because of ITAR, it is unlikely that the actual "toy" will be provided, but a comparable subsystem wouldn't be out of the question. E.g. The DoD regularly operates rapid reaction challenges with a simulated problem from theater - see http://www.kirtland.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123120737 Something similar could be done with DEF CON.

I think it is important to maintain perspective when stories like this come out. Contrary to some of the comments, defense contractors and researchers/engineers at gov't R&D labs do put the priorities of the warfighter first. Consider that many of the engineers/contractors/researchers/etc working on technology development are combat veterans themselves.

The issue is that we face adaptive adversaries.

Re: Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones

#32

Post by malkia »

likpok wrote: post #23
vaksel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm sure lack of reliability is part of their business plan. You make the perfect humvee, and suddenly the army stops buying as many. There is a reason the AK47 is so much more reliable than the M16. And it's been out for like 60 years now.

The AK is more reliable because it is less accurate. The tolerances on the various mechanical parts are higher, but as a result they are looser.

AK is the Perl of the weapons. I had to use AK-47 for year (serving in the Bulgarian army). It was easy to clean, assemble, disassemble, but every weapon was a bit-off due to the production (or heavy usage, don't know). So to get good results you have to learn where your weapon strays.

Re: Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones

#33

Post by roundsquare »

kbob wrote: post #27
pmorici wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article said that people knew the potential existed since the mid 90's so the problem was't ignorance it was arrogance and apathy.

Oldest mistake in the book: since the adversaries dress differently, speak a different language, and are a different race, assume they must be idiots. The WSJ reporter fell into the same trap: Iraqis and Afghans couldn't have figured out how to tap a video feed on their own; they must have had Iranian help.

leading some officials to conclude that militant groups trained and funded by Iran were regularly intercepting feeds.

The officials came to that conclusion, not the WSJ. Also, see @pmorici's answer.

Re: Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones

#34

Post by roundsquare »

malkia wrote: post #32
likpok wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AK is more reliable because it is less accurate. The tolerances on the various mechanical parts are higher, but as a result they are looser.

AK is the Perl of the weapons. I had to use AK-47 for year (serving in the Bulgarian army). It was easy to clean, assemble, disassemble, but every weapon was a bit-off due to the production (or heavy usage, don't know). So to get good results you have to learn where your weapon strays.

How much does that affect a user? I mean, if you take the time to learn how much it strays, are you at that point just as accurate as someone with a more accurate weapon?

I've never used a gun so I'm curious.

Re: Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones

#35

Post by ThinkWriteMute »

noonespecial wrote: post #25

Part of the problem is that the military awards contracts that are sometimes decades long. What was "good enough" security in 1990 is not looking so hot 20 years on. The US military machine may not perform as well as it has in the past in the new era of betas, hotfixes and patches. I will not be at all surprised when insurgent "rc-plane" drones start showing up with cell phones, arduinos, grenades and duct-tape.

It's dreadfully easy to shop build a rocket, especially in America where places like Radioshack exist.

Re: Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones

#36

Post by pyre »

jpwagner wrote: post #13
Devilboy wrote: post #4

'Fixing the security gap would have caused delays' '... it would have added to the Predator's price' If you're paying $20 million each you'd think another million to ensure your targets don't see you coming would be a no-brainer?

While I obviously think they need to close the security gaps, I just want to make a comment on your comment: it's that kind of thinking that keeps our taxes increasing and our economy in shambles. I'm with @tsally on the solution to this kind of problem...

@tsally is advocating having 'real' hackers hack on the thing to find vulnerabilities. In this case though, the vulnerability was known but it would have cost more money to actually fix it. Having people attack the thing for vulnerabilities still wouldn't change the fact that you would need to pay however much money to do the fixing.

Re: Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones

#38

Post by ErrantX »

noonespecial wrote: post #25

Part of the problem is that the military awards contracts that are sometimes decades long. What was "good enough" security in 1990 is not looking so hot 20 years on. The US military machine may not perform as well as it has in the past in the new era of betas, hotfixes and patches. I will not be at all surprised when insurgent "rc-plane" drones start showing up with cell phones, arduinos, grenades and duct-tape.

http://diydrones.com/

:)

Re: Insurgents Hack U.S. Drones

#39

Post by bootload »

vaksel wrote: post #21
potatolicious wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, what do our defence contractors care more about: making their weapons actually work? Or merely selling them?

i'm sure lack of reliability is part of their business plan. You make the perfect humvee, and suddenly the army stops buying as many. There is a reason the AK47 is so much more reliable than the M16. And it's been out for like 60 years now.

"... There is a reason the AK47 is so much more reliable than the M16 ..."

There is nothing worse than "language" or "editor" wars, except maybe arguments over "weapon of choice" ~ http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/m16-vs-ak47-iraqi-...

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