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A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

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Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#81

"Don’t manage only to advance your career. Many tech companies have parallel career paths to seniority for both technical and managerial high-performers." Is this really true? Many engineers do become managers only to advance their careers. The "parallel" technical career path never seems to deliver equal amounts of power, or even money, as compared to managers on the same level. Even when a rough parity exists on pa…

The "parallel" technical career path never seems to deliver equal amounts of power, or even money, as compared to managers on the same level.

Very true. Engineering is the hard way up, because there's so much less of the title and grade and salary inflation on the management track. Take Google. If you're a manager and don't make Director in 5 years, you fucked something up. On the other hand, the Director-equivalent Principal Engineer rank is 3 jumps (all of them non-trivial to make) above Senior. When I was at Google (and this is probably no longer true) the number of Principal+ Engineers at Google NYC was... zero.

The cynic in me suspects that dual-track organizations actually serve management's goals by making it look rank-per-rank superior, just as the lopsided college admissions climate convinces middle-class public school kids that prep kids who get into Harvard are somehow impressive (because it is very hard to get into an Ivy from a middle-class background, but really easy for rich legacy kids). If you make it astronomically difficult to become a VP-equivalent engineer, then the VPs (who had a much easier climb) look more impressive. Far from providing a genuine alternative path to success, this process cements the tribal superiority of management.

Most telling is that when Google really wants someone and is competing with finance or Facebook and gives them a High-Compensation Plan (HCP), the person is put on the management ladder, even if that person intends and expects to be a full-time programmer. It's really hard to justify a $500,000 salary for an engineer but much easier if you give that person a managerial title. I'd imagine that Google isn't alone in this. It's probably a standard big-company thing.

Engineers (and, in finance, also quants and strats) also share some of the blame for the relative grade deflation, because we beat each other up relative to businessmen. They give each other consistently high marks and talk each other up. We're far too honest. And this "honesty" is something I've come to view negatively because what it really is, is ratting someone out to management, often cheaply or for free. My inclination, if they aren't hurting me or a project that I care about, is to protect underperformers, not because I like it when people underperform, but because information is power and I'm not going to share honest performance information on other people unless there is a legitimate reason to do so. (I care if someone is fucking up my project, or an existential threat to the company or my career. I don't care if he's costing someone else's company a salary while doing nothing; that's not an existential threat, so who cares?) But engineers have a storied history of being willing to tear each other down for cheap or even for free, and technology management has been exploiting our lack of tribal cohesion, in order to turn us against each other, for decades.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#82

"Don’t manage only to advance your career. Many tech companies have parallel career paths to seniority for both technical and managerial high-performers." Is this really true? Many engineers do become managers only to advance their careers. The "parallel" technical career path never seems to deliver equal amounts of power, or even money, as compared to managers on the same level. Even when a rough parity exists on pa…

This is as true as:

1) We value work life balance!

2) We only hire the best! Everyone here is a rock star.

3) We love diversity!

4) We have an open door policy. You can complain about anything!

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#83

The day I decided to make it a goal to switch from developing software to management: I was sitting at my desk at 8:00 at night fixing some bug and I looked across the sea of gray half-height cubicles at a someone 30 years older than me doing the same thing with the exact same job title, probably not making much more than I. At 95% of companies, there is zero career development and advancement once you become a "Seni…

Worth noting is that it's not just about titles. Titles matter, but they can also become a joke. It's easy to imagine a company, realizing that its best seniors are underpaid, inventing a new title to justify paying them only 10% more instead of the 30% they should get.

The bigger problem is that most companies view "engineer" as "implementor of ideas that come from the business". Hence, all that Agile/Scrum bullshit in which engineers just churn tickets, rather than making meaningful technical decisions and building projects of increasing scope. No one who has any leverage and talent wants to work in that way. This becomes self-perpetuating, because even though there are good people who stick around (usually, with kids in expensive private schools, or uninsured sick relatives) the assumption becomes that good engineers leave after a certain point and, thus, that anyone left isn't any good.

For me, I only enjoy coding if it's part of a bigger whole, and if I am proving something in doing so. If I'm stuck in a ticket shop and can't leave for 2 years for some reason, I'm going to manage (preferably officially; unofficially via aggressive delegation if necessary) because I was done with that junior-level business-story coding several years ago. I graduated out of it long ago, and I won't be put back there like Billy Madison.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#85

"Don’t manage only to advance your career. Many tech companies have parallel career paths to seniority for both technical and managerial high-performers." Is this really true? Many engineers do become managers only to advance their careers. The "parallel" technical career path never seems to deliver equal amounts of power, or even money, as compared to managers on the same level. Even when a rough parity exists on pa…

This is as true as: 1) We value work life balance! 2) We only hire the best! Everyone here is a rock star. 3) We love diversity! 4) We have an open door policy. You can complain about anything!

> 1) We value work life balance!

I interviewed somewhere that specifically mentioned #1 in the job description. I applied in part because it was the only job ad I had seen to that point specifically mentioning it.

It was brought up again in the interview as a perk of the job, by the person who would be my boss, without my prompting. In the very next sentence he made a generalization about being confused as to why developers would not willingly work 45-50 hours a week as a rule and how "40-hour clock watchers" never lasted long at the company.

The cognitive dissonance was staggering.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#86
post #48
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a CIO in a large company, your life is more about managing budgets than doing anything technical.

If you're a CIO at a large company your life is about leadership, or you will become a CIO at a small company really fast.

In my experience, some are leaders. Most are just managers.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until engineering decides to do something about it, engineering will always be subordinate to management. There are no true parallel career paths.

Until engineering decides to do something about it, engineering will always be subordinate to management. There are no true parallel career paths. You nailed it. That is all. If we want respect, we have to fucking earn it by forcing businessmen to see us as equals, whatever the effort and cost.

I'm curious what exactly you have in mind.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by "superstar", it's usually a person that can communicate his ideas eloquently and knows how to effectively evangelize and self-promote. It has not much to do with the actual technical competency. So, the skillset required to become a "technical superstar" resembles more of a skillset required for good manager or marketing persona than actual engineering skill set, though some level is required.

True, most of the superstars are "architects" who can both come up with excellent technical plans and then socialize/communicate them. I have a had a few "put on head phones and pump out 5 developers worth of excellent code" types as well.

I'm continuing to wander slowly but surely into more architecture roles, and while the term has fully justifiably been badly wrecked by people doing "architecture" who think it involves drawing diagrams with lots of boxes and lines and never checking the architecture against the requirements, there is a legitimate architecture role that does exist and there are legitimate skills that are specialized to that role. I'm not sure it's something that can be taught very well, though. But as one for instance, I could clearly explain to you how the architecture conforms to Conway's Law and exactly why it's shaped the way it is, and not some other way.

(Conway's Law is huge for a high-level architect... in a lot of ways you do not so much "create" the architecture as discover how to correctly translate the pre-existing corporate structures into code in the most business-efficient manner. "Architects" in this position who think they're working with a blank slate crash and burn, and probably are the source of the disdain for the term. A real architect is in fact working in some of the most constrained design space there is. In some ways that actually sorta kinda makes the job easier; you can sort through and dismiss a lot of bad choices very quickly with Conway's Law. The biggest challenge is when you get constrained down to zero choices for some problem and have to work Conway's Law in the other direction, and figure out how to fix the corresponding structural failures in the organization itself. It's a lot easier to change code than people structures, but sometimes you have no choice....)

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#89
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I know senior engineers that chose the technical route rather than manager route, who make absolutely ridiculous amounts of money. Like close to 1,000,000/year including equity. I don't know any non VP level people making anywhere close to that. Obviously this is anecdotal though.

We know these people exist but it's whether or not they're common enough for your better than average tech to land and whether it requires actual technical knowledge or just good salesmanship. I imagine it's a mixture of both, but that if I wasn't a contractor, I'd probably feel it's easier to get paid more by going tech -> team leader -> manager.

I've never heard it suggested that these best-of-the-best types of positions should be attainable by "your better than average tech." If your biggest asset is that you are "better than average" I think even hoping for a generic Senior Software Developer type of position is ambitious.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#90
post #7

After being a consultant, engineer, manager and again starting as allinone on a small project, I believe organizational hierarchy is just an OK solution. If I put on a career planner hat, I find so many career paths which are in big hierarchies personally bad deals and would avoid them in future and advice the same to others. I wrote a summary of what I observed so many times. Sorry for a lengthy post. When a softwar…

You got it right; you either conform to the role you're given or you get out and do something else. The role doesn't even have to be aligned with increasing revenue or increasing customer happiness, typically it's aligned with making your manager happy.

Paul Graham talked about this in an old essay; the fewer layers there are between hackers and users, the happier both of them will be. Dealing with organizational politics doesn't help either the hacker or the user.

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