A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers • Hacker News Board

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#21

Post by smt88 » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 8:20 AM UTC

colund wrote: post #11

For me, the whole idea of management in the software industry is to get out of the way to ensure engineers can do their job and and https://twitter.com/therealfitz/status/623526248338186240

No, managers should actually make the engineers' jobs easier. The manager should take things off their plates (or streamline with good processes) anything that they aren't specialized to do.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#22

Post by dang » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 8:20 AM UTC

brador wrote: post #17

This is a list of things a CEO wants managers to do and be like. IMO following these rules will keep you submissive and his castle nice and orderly. Not what you want if you have an ounce of ambition. To actually survive and excel as a manager you need to play politics and win turf battles. Take on the highest value projects and ship. To get the good projects you'll need to fight because everyone wants them. TLDR: Ad…

How do playing politics and turf battles add value to the company?

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#23

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Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#24

Post by philwelch » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 8:25 AM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #20

carc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I know senior engineers that chose the technical route rather than manager route, who make absolutely ridiculous amounts of money. Like close to 1,000,000/year including equity. I don't know any non VP level people making anywhere close to that. Obviously this is anecdotal though.

"including equity" Pretend the equity is worth zero or close to zero (which it almost always is). How much are those people making then?

At a startup this is a good rule of thumb, but the more established a company is, the closer to cash equity becomes. At a publicly traded company, equity can be a periodic (albeit variable) cash bonus if you want it to be.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#25

Post by rkwasny » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 8:28 AM UTC

colund wrote: post #11

For me, the whole idea of management in the software industry is to get out of the way to ensure engineers can do their job and and https://twitter.com/therealfitz/status/623526248338186240

This picture is accurate, just someone should realize this shit on the top is not needed and not adding any value.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#26

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 8:30 AM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #20

carc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I know senior engineers that chose the technical route rather than manager route, who make absolutely ridiculous amounts of money. Like close to 1,000,000/year including equity. I don't know any non VP level people making anywhere close to that. Obviously this is anecdotal though.

"including equity" Pretend the equity is worth zero or close to zero (which it almost always is). How much are those people making then?

[deleted]

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#27

Post by gchadwick » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 8:38 AM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #20

carc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I know senior engineers that chose the technical route rather than manager route, who make absolutely ridiculous amounts of money. Like close to 1,000,000/year including equity. I don't know any non VP level people making anywhere close to that. Obviously this is anecdotal though.

"including equity" Pretend the equity is worth zero or close to zero (which it almost always is). How much are those people making then?

> Pretend the equity is worth zero or close to zero (which it almost always is)

In a startup or private company yet to IPO sure.

In an established, large, public company, RSUs, ESPP and whatever else you get is definitely going to deliver cash. Sure as the market moves around it'll change in value but you might look at it as +- 20% of the expected value. It's certainly not worth 0.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#28

Post by thomasrossi » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 8:41 AM UTC

plinkplonk wrote: post #12

"Don’t manage only to advance your career. Many tech companies have parallel career paths to seniority for both technical and managerial high-performers." Is this really true? Many engineers do become managers only to advance their careers. The "parallel" technical career path never seems to deliver equal amounts of power, or even money, as compared to managers on the same level. Even when a rough parity exists on pa…

In Deloitte there are now "orange profiles" which are only technical and are earning more than functional figures. It is true though that at the best of my knowledge no "orange profile" has made it yet to a Board.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#29

Post by netcan » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 8:50 AM UTC

plinkplonk wrote: post #12

"Don’t manage only to advance your career. Many tech companies have parallel career paths to seniority for both technical and managerial high-performers." Is this really true? Many engineers do become managers only to advance their careers. The "parallel" technical career path never seems to deliver equal amounts of power, or even money, as compared to managers on the same level. Even when a rough parity exists on pa…

I have no idea if this is true, but just postulating a reason…

If you consider management to be a distinct skill,Someone with 10 years of experience engineering and also 10 years in management is (potentially) very skilled in two distinct fields. Imagine you have a lawyer with a PHD in geology and they work on ground water disputes or oil well stuff.

Being an expert in two fields is valuable.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#30

Post by tharax » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 8:57 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #22

brador wrote: post #17

This is a list of things a CEO wants managers to do and be like. IMO following these rules will keep you submissive and his castle nice and orderly. Not what you want if you have an ounce of ambition. To actually survive and excel as a manager you need to play politics and win turf battles. Take on the highest value projects and ship. To get the good projects you'll need to fight because everyone wants them. TLDR: Ad…

How do playing politics and turf battles add value to the company?

SOMEONE will end up managing the team that adds value to the company. I think the point is to play the politics & turf battles so that YOU are that someone.