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Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

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Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#91

Post by wrasee »

jason_oster wrote: post #87
wrasee wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental difference is that computers can do this at a pace and scale that humans could never aspire to. There is a natural limit to the extent a single individual can be informed by previous works. It sets a natural pace to innovation that is sustainable for both the artist and derivative works. Computers have no such limitation and can consume almost the entirety of a subject’s work in a few weeks or months.…

Automated assembly lines have the same properties. Same with transportation. Buses, trains, airplanes, ships. These all work tirelessly at a pace that humans cannot match. There is no fundamental difference.

I think you missed the point. The claim is that AI training from public information is no different from humans learning from public information.

My argument is precisely that the mechanisation of information is fundamentally different from the scale at which a human can learn. One immediate consequence being there is no longer a natural brake on the scale of what can be sourced for use in a derivative work.

To be clear this is not a value judgement, just to point out that it _is_ different, just as driving is fundamentally different from what one can do with one’s own feet. Of course the mechanisation of transport is history and seems daft to argue against. But it is different. Whether that’s good or bad is a much harder question.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#92

Post by nkrisc »

archerx wrote: post #80
nkrisc wrote: post #71

It’s sad how the existing corpus of artists’ works are being used against them. The only reason this can generate images like these is because artists previously created artwork like this. And then in return they get: > you don't need to high an artist or animator to develop you game. Unless you created all the training material yourself, any model like this is highly unethical, in my opinion.

As someone who is an artist and also a programmer I find the differences between both very different. I never see programmers crying over A.I. chiming “they stole our code so it’s evil and I’ll never use it and neither should you!” Like the artist seem to do. I don’t really care if the image gen models are trained on my renders or photos as long as they are open source. Also I have been making the assets for my game…

I’m not opposed to generative AI, in principle, it’s how it’s being employed that bothers me.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#93

Post by nkrisc »

Aeolun wrote: post #73
nkrisc wrote: post #71

It’s sad how the existing corpus of artists’ works are being used against them. The only reason this can generate images like these is because artists previously created artwork like this. And then in return they get: > you don't need to high an artist or animator to develop you game. Unless you created all the training material yourself, any model like this is highly unethical, in my opinion.

Unless you didn’t want people to see and use it, maybe you shouldn’t have made it public? I don’t think training AI is fundamentally different from humans learning from things they see, and we don’t restrict that either.

AI isn’t human.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#94

Post by davidclark »

archerx wrote: post #80
nkrisc wrote: post #71

It’s sad how the existing corpus of artists’ works are being used against them. The only reason this can generate images like these is because artists previously created artwork like this. And then in return they get: > you don't need to high an artist or animator to develop you game. Unless you created all the training material yourself, any model like this is highly unethical, in my opinion.

As someone who is an artist and also a programmer I find the differences between both very different. I never see programmers crying over A.I. chiming “they stole our code so it’s evil and I’ll never use it and neither should you!” Like the artist seem to do. I don’t really care if the image gen models are trained on my renders or photos as long as they are open source. Also I have been making the assets for my game…

From a recent blog shared on HN, among a list of reasons they can’t or won’t use LLMs:

>The training data for LLMs is stolen. I don’t mean like “pirated” in the sense where someone illicitly shares a copy they obtained legitimately; I mean their scrapers are ignoring both norms and laws to obtain copies under false pretenses, destroying other people’s infrastructure. [footnotes omitted]

“I think I'm done thinking about GenAI for now” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44193018

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#95

Post by asddubs »

archerx wrote: post #80
nkrisc wrote: post #71

It’s sad how the existing corpus of artists’ works are being used against them. The only reason this can generate images like these is because artists previously created artwork like this. And then in return they get: > you don't need to high an artist or animator to develop you game. Unless you created all the training material yourself, any model like this is highly unethical, in my opinion.

As someone who is an artist and also a programmer I find the differences between both very different. I never see programmers crying over A.I. chiming “they stole our code so it’s evil and I’ll never use it and neither should you!” Like the artist seem to do. I don’t really care if the image gen models are trained on my renders or photos as long as they are open source. Also I have been making the assets for my game…

people did complain about it stealing GPL code scraped off github etc and then license laundering a lot, especially during the earlier days. I think now people are just worn down to have the conversation again.

I do also think the threat is bigger to artists. Sloppy code will cause problems, and at some point you'll need someone who knows what's going on to step in. Sloppy art, a lot of people accept.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#96

Post by akritrime »

nkrisc wrote: post #71

It’s sad how the existing corpus of artists’ works are being used against them. The only reason this can generate images like these is because artists previously created artwork like this. And then in return they get: > you don't need to high an artist or animator to develop you game. Unless you created all the training material yourself, any model like this is highly unethical, in my opinion.

Imagine if writers complained that stuff they wrote were being used in literature classes that teaches people how to read and write because how sentences they once toiled over for hours would now be used in mundane letters.

AI can't take away an artists creativity, just like how photography didn't kill painting. Yes, it closes up certain avenues on how artists make money but it will most probably make up for that by making them more productive.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#98

Post by Draiken »

akritrime wrote: post #96
nkrisc wrote: post #71

It’s sad how the existing corpus of artists’ works are being used against them. The only reason this can generate images like these is because artists previously created artwork like this. And then in return they get: > you don't need to high an artist or animator to develop you game. Unless you created all the training material yourself, any model like this is highly unethical, in my opinion.

Imagine if writers complained that stuff they wrote were being used in literature classes that teaches people how to read and write because how sentences they once toiled over for hours would now be used in mundane letters. AI can't take away an artists creativity, just like how photography didn't kill painting. Yes, it closes up certain avenues on how artists make money but it will most probably make up for that by…

Comparing teaching other humans to "teaching" a model is absurd.

AI can't take their creativity but it will take their means of survival so a few companies can profit instead. Yeah, great trade-off.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#99

Post by archerx »

nkrisc wrote: post #92
archerx wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is an artist and also a programmer I find the differences between both very different. I never see programmers crying over A.I. chiming “they stole our code so it’s evil and I’ll never use it and neither should you!” Like the artist seem to do. I don’t really care if the image gen models are trained on my renders or photos as long as they are open source. Also I have been making the assets for my game…

I’m not opposed to generative AI, in principle, it’s how it’s being employed that bothers me.

Please elaborate.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#100

Post by bandoti »

asddubs wrote: post #95
archerx wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is an artist and also a programmer I find the differences between both very different. I never see programmers crying over A.I. chiming “they stole our code so it’s evil and I’ll never use it and neither should you!” Like the artist seem to do. I don’t really care if the image gen models are trained on my renders or photos as long as they are open source. Also I have been making the assets for my game…

people did complain about it stealing GPL code scraped off github etc and then license laundering a lot, especially during the earlier days. I think now people are just worn down to have the conversation again. I do also think the threat is bigger to artists. Sloppy code will cause problems, and at some point you'll need someone who knows what's going on to step in. Sloppy art, a lot of people accept.

I’m not sure over time people will continue to accept sloppy art.

The “glitchiness” of the AI sprites can be quite unsettling because one can feel the something-quite-wrong that is difficult to place.

This is a worse state than using even rough illustrations by actual artists.

If one must use AI for this I would recommend having an artist in the pipeline who uses AI to create assets but then makes sure they are seamless.

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