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Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

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Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#601

Post by omeid2 »

Kab1r wrote: post #584
collegeburner wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

okay but this "interoperability" is legitimately hard without degrading the user experience because apple's unique level of control allows it to produce a superior product with more consistency. airdrop is best-in-class; open-source solutions like wi-fi direct are dumpsterfires with trash UX. LE proximity pairing is, i believe, a custom chip apple put in airpods (h1 chip) because bluetooth is stuck in 2005 and still…

It's really not. Just make the "superior product" interoperable.

But it often not that simple, anyone who has done cross-platform development can tell you this by heart, it doesn't matter what you do, you must adhere to the lowest common denominator. Interoperability isn't free.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#602

Post by madeofpalk »

chatmasta wrote: post #482
stefan_ wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a problem. Emulating the protocol is okayish-to-gray but having the binary there will just be a straight DMCA. Wonder what the actual app is doing since this is just the PoC.

I don't think the finer legal points matter too much. If Apple wants to sue them, they'll sue them, regardless of legal merit. And I suspect Beeper is betting they can make their case from a more philosophical angle, such that it's irrelevant what grounds Apple cites when suing them. Beeper will fight it either way. I'm an Apple user who has no need for this app. But I really appreciate that Beeper has the balls to r…

I dont believe Apple would sue. I think they would just change the protocol to block this from happening.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#603

Post by chatmasta »

madeofpalk wrote: post #602
chatmasta wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the finer legal points matter too much. If Apple wants to sue them, they'll sue them, regardless of legal merit. And I suspect Beeper is betting they can make their case from a more philosophical angle, such that it's irrelevant what grounds Apple cites when suing them. Beeper will fight it either way. I'm an Apple user who has no need for this app. But I really appreciate that Beeper has the balls to r…

I dont believe Apple would sue. I think they would just change the protocol to block this from happening.

I think you might be right, especially with the heat on them from the EU right now. It's faster to play the technical cat-and-mouse game for as long as possible.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#604

Post by crooked-v »

matsz wrote: post #57

Great job! Just from taking a quick look at this, what you have here is much bigger than iMessage itself. This could literally allow things like Universal Clipboard to work on Linux and Windows - by using the method presented here to access the iCloud Keychain and generating Continuity keys and placing them there - then the iPhone will broadcast its clipboard data encrypted with those keys via BLE. If I understand al…

I had been wondering where Beeper's route to profitability was, but if they can get Continuity and AirDrop stuff working with Windows that will be an instant no-brainer subscription for a lot of people (including me), so I guess it works out.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#605

Post by Kab1r »

omeid2 wrote: post #601
Kab1r wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not. Just make the "superior product" interoperable.

But it often not that simple, anyone who has done cross-platform development can tell you this by heart, it doesn't matter what you do, you must adhere to the lowest common denominator. Interoperability isn't free.

I'm not asking them to implement these things on every platform, but it's not difficult to make documentation they certainly already have about protocols available.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#607

Post by CobrastanJorji »

sprite wrote: post #580

Did you get permission from Apple to connect to their servers? Google Play does not allow apps to connect to 3rd party APIs without consent. The relevant policy can be found at: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... "We don’t allow apps that interfere with, disrupt, damage, or access in an unauthorized manner the user’s device, other devices or computers, servers, networks, application progr…

Is this specifically unauthorized, though? The user is permitted to use Apple's services, and Apple has, as far as I know, not announced that third party apps may not use their services.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#608

Post by dylan604 »

rpmisms wrote: post #581
not2b wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, governments can require interoperability and can limit monopolies. That's how antitrust laws work, like it or not. But if you want to get all libertarian, why should companies be able to use government power (as in courts, DMCA and the like) to shut down smaller companies that reverse-engineer their protocols?

I'm a major libertarian, and you have a great point. Apple should maintain their competitive advantage via technical means or let more cooks in the kitchen.

Which is pretty much where "if you can't innovate, litigate" has its roots.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#609

Post by sprite »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #607
sprite wrote: post #580

Did you get permission from Apple to connect to their servers? Google Play does not allow apps to connect to 3rd party APIs without consent. The relevant policy can be found at: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... "We don’t allow apps that interfere with, disrupt, damage, or access in an unauthorized manner the user’s device, other devices or computers, servers, networks, application progr…

Is this specifically unauthorized, though? The user is permitted to use Apple's services, and Apple has, as far as I know, not announced that third party apps may not use their services.

If Apple files a complaint with Google it will definitely get taken down under this clause, so I think the only way it will stay up is if Apple doesn’t care.

With the trouble Apple goes through to ensure you are accessing APNS from an Apple device including obfuscating the signing algorithm and requiring unique hardware identifiers I think it’s safe to assume they don’t want 3rd parties accessing their services.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#610

Post by smashah »

wslh wrote: post #446
bogwog wrote: post #296

This seems like it won't last, but it's AWESOME and I really hope you survive Apple's inevitable attempts to kill this. A universal chat application would be amazing, and will maybe help bring attention to the value of standards and interoperability (hopefully by governments/regulators).

One of my companies lives from this kind of things so it would last if someone could fund it. More food for thought: "Reflecting on 16 Years of Work on Adversarial Interoperability" (now, more than 20...) [1] [1] https://blog.nektra.com/2020/01/12/reflecting-on-16-years-of...

Have you ever received C&D for your work? There's a big problem of OSS projects being TOS-trolled by billion dollar companies and having to shut down out of fear.
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