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Show HN: I speak 5 languages. Common apps taught me none. So I built lairner

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Re: Show HN: I speak 5 languages. Common apps taught me none. So I built lairner

#61

Post by graypegg »

barrell wrote: post #40
graypegg wrote: post #16

> I learned Turkish with lairner itself Honest question, how? If this is a side project so you're presumably the person making the courses, and you didn't speak Turkish before, how did you make a course that taught yourself Turkish? > We work together with some institutes of endangered languages to be able to teach them on our platform. I assume this is how? Are you a platform for these institutions to provide Duolin…

Not OP, but I also coincidentally built a language learning app to learn Turkish. I don't think you can create courses without experience in the language, but it is possible to build analytical tools to make language learning possible. Tech + linguistics can take you pretty far. This isn't to hijack the thread, but wanted to comment because honestly one of the coolest feelings in my life has been learning a language…

That's really interesting! Are you talking more of language as a field of study? (phonetics, grammar, history, etc) Having lived in a place where I only had a pretty limited understanding of the language initially, I constantly made VERY embarrassing mistakes that were 100% cultural. It's so hard to teach that without knowing the quotes people think of when you say something, or the way people soften swear words, or what forms "feel" polite in what scenarios...

Of course it's hard to get that without a baseline knowledge of phrases/words/grammer... but you're talking about teaching other people, which is interpretable as an authority on the language you're teaching, right?

Re: Show HN: I speak 5 languages. Common apps taught me none. So I built lairner

#62

Post by darkwater »

hackyhacky wrote: post #58
darkwater wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rhetorical question was broader, because GP comment was a generic one, not specific to this project. I would ask you to be more mindful in your replies.

> My rhetorical question was broader, It doesn't matter, the answer is the same. Using vibecoding is less effort that not using it, so of late we see a lot of low-effort vibecoding projects, of which this is one. Ergo, vibecoding is an easily-spotted red flag for projects that are not worth taking seriously. > I would ask you to be more mindful in your replies. You should take your own advice. Also, don't be a dick.

> It doesn't matter, the answer is the same. Using vibecoding is less effort that not using it, so of late we see a lot of low-effort vibecoding projects, of which this is one. Ergo, vibecoding is an easily-spotted red flag for projects that are not worth taking seriously.

And the whole point of my initial reply was to question the definition of "effort".

> You should take your own advice. Also, don't be a dick.

I think your reply perfectly illustrates the situation.

Not a fruitful discussion anyway, enjoy clicking down arrows.

Re: Show HN: I speak 5 languages. Common apps taught me none. So I built lairner

#63

Post by ibdf »

From the title it seems you are not a fan of Duolingo, which is fair. However the app lessons seem very similar to Duolingo. It even seems you copied "hearts" and "gems" and "streaks" from Duolingo.

Some questions:

"Listen to authentic native pronunciation in every lesson. Learn the correct accent and intonation from day one."

Can you elaborate on what this means? I currently speak Portuguese (Brazilian) and Italian. While the Italian audio seems fine, the Brazilian portuguese audio is not very good. It seems to be using Portugal's portuguese. And it doesn't sound "native". The audio for single words specially is not something I would recommend to anyone learning portuguese.

The landing page also makes these marketing claims but doesn't go further into any of them:

- "Our proven algorithm tracks every word you learn". Do you follow any learning methodology? What has been "proven" about your algorithm? Are their some stats?

- "Engage in dynamic lessons designed by language specialists." Who are you language specialists that have "carefully designed lessons"?

The one thing you have going for you is that I didn't have to give you my email to get started but the landing page doesn't give me any confidence that this app is better than Duolingo or other language apps.

Re: Show HN: I speak 5 languages. Common apps taught me none. So I built lairner

#64

Post by Throaway1982 »

barrell wrote: post #51
Throaway1982 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

???? that is called fluency

Not really. Fluency is probably closer to 70-95% comprehension, combined with an ability to assume the rest. I assume the comment is talking about native level comprehension, which is still only like 99.99% Source: native English speaker in Europe. I have to explain/reword several words/expressions per day to people who would be by all means considered fluent. (all numbers in this comment were estimated based on expe…

I wouldn't consider anyone "fluent" who has only 70% comprehension. More like 90%+. If you're assuming things based on context that is a marker of a low level of comprehension.

Im also a native English speaker and have to explain English words daily to other native English speakers. Dont really think that matters. Some words are more common than others.

Re: Show HN: I speak 5 languages. Common apps taught me none. So I built lairner

#65

Post by jancsika »

thunfischtoast wrote: post #22

It's always a good initiative to build something on your own. Then again, it's also good to not lie to your users. Your courses are AI-generated and not curated by experts. I tried the French beginner course, using German as my base language. The very first items were: 1. Hallo (hello) > Bonjour (I think salut would be better) 2. Guten Morgen (good morning) > Bonjour Then it asked me what Bonjour means, and selecting…

In other words, the system is designed so that any learning the speaker attempts somehow ends up being scored wrong, forcing the speaker to conclude they will always be identified by the system as an error-prone, non-native speaker yearning for acceptance by ears trained from childhood to hear cracks in any facade the speaker slaps together, forever and ever...

Sounds like the author unwittingly taught you the first lesson. :)

Edit: clarification

Re: Show HN: I speak 5 languages. Common apps taught me none. So I built lairner

#66

Post by barrell »

graypegg wrote: post #61
barrell wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I also coincidentally built a language learning app to learn Turkish. I don't think you can create courses without experience in the language, but it is possible to build analytical tools to make language learning possible. Tech + linguistics can take you pretty far. This isn't to hijack the thread, but wanted to comment because honestly one of the coolest feelings in my life has been learning a language…

That's really interesting! Are you talking more of language as a field of study? (phonetics, grammar, history, etc) Having lived in a place where I only had a pretty limited understanding of the language initially, I constantly made VERY embarrassing mistakes that were 100% cultural. It's so hard to teach that without knowing the quotes people think of when you say something, or the way people soften swear words, or…

My app works in a bring your own content kind of way. Most users AI generate their expressions, which gets you pretty far, especially in the beginning. But for languages I speak, I curate my expressions with things I read or hear or get corrected on.

I've also tried to use a more sentence-mining approach for Japanese, given the cultural differences, but tbh I haven't found much benefit at my level (A1/JLPT5).

I'm pretty sure it's impossible to avoid awkward situations in other languages, 10x so with culturally foreign languages. Best I can do is help you learn from them :)

Re: Show HN: I speak 5 languages. Common apps taught me none. So I built lairner

#67

Post by andsoitis »

barrell wrote: post #60
andsoitis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dak hu tajjeb ħafna! Se nagħti ħarsa. Jien ukoll għadni kif bdejt u eċċitat ħafna.

Please get in touch if you have any questions! The setup process is hit and miss, but there's a telegram community for members with many happy customers. I'm there all the time and we're all happy to help! Plus it would be awesome to get more Maltese learners. I have no one to gush about this language with :D

Can't wait to try it out.

Have you been to Malta?

Re: Show HN: I speak 5 languages. Common apps taught me none. So I built lairner

#68

Post by barrell »

Throaway1982 wrote: post #64
barrell wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Fluency is probably closer to 70-95% comprehension, combined with an ability to assume the rest. I assume the comment is talking about native level comprehension, which is still only like 99.99% Source: native English speaker in Europe. I have to explain/reword several words/expressions per day to people who would be by all means considered fluent. (all numbers in this comment were estimated based on expe…

I wouldn't consider anyone "fluent" who has only 70% comprehension. More like 90%+. If you're assuming things based on context that is a marker of a low level of comprehension. Im also a native English speaker and have to explain English words daily to other native English speakers. Dont really think that matters. Some words are more common than others.

I would say "full comprehension" would mean you don't need words and phrases explained to you on a daily basis.

And to each their own. Fluency is a bad metric because it means something different to everyone. If you live in a language, work in a language, and have friends in a language, most people would consider that fluent. I've met many, many people who qualify with a much lower comprehension level than 90%.

Also, speaking from experience, I'll often "comprehend a sentence 100% in another language". Then I'll really listen to it again and realize I'm not really sure about half of the words. I have a vague idea of most of them and in context my brain get's it and self-reports full comprehension.

I think "full comprehension" is a substantially higher bar than "fluency".

Re: Show HN: I speak 5 languages. Common apps taught me none. So I built lairner

#70

Post by moralestapia »

graypegg wrote: post #55
moralestapia wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How can you go to if you haven't been there before.

If the point of learning a language was to say new words to yourself, you can just make up words. If you want to be understood and understand others, who ever "they" are sort of need to exist while you're learning. I can promise you, speaking out of a phrase book burned into your brain with limited cultural knowledge from other people makes for a very boring cringeworthy conversation partner, and an awful language te…

All of those stories are cool, I enjoyed reading them.

However, the app exists ... and it works. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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