Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

sanipasse.fr

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 87 posts

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#61

Post by seszett »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #53
mlok wrote: post #52

"In the backend, it has a small SQL database which stores no personal information: just the list of invitees and their status." This status is private medical information : in France (and all Europe probably) it is illegal to store these datas, unless you use specialized "health datas secure hosting". You cannot legally do it yourself this way. French Official Documents : Health Datas Hosting : https://www.legifrance…

Storing name, DOB, test date, test result in the QR code is a good solution IMHO and indeed using a database as a private organisation is fraught with problems. Name and DOB are reasonably needed to assert the person's identity. Especially in France everyone carries an ID card so people can show ID and certificate together. Safeguarding private information is important but some must be disclosed as necessary.

What surprises me is that the person's address is stored there. It seems to me absolutely unnecessary, and I'm not even sure where they get it from as the address on record by Social Security is not supposed to be disclosed even to health professionals.

I think this is only the address one gives freely to the vaccination/test center and which is not checked by anyone.

I still can't think of any case where it would be useful in conjunction with your vaccination status.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#62

Post by mytailorisrich »

seszett wrote: post #61
mytailorisrich wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Storing name, DOB, test date, test result in the QR code is a good solution IMHO and indeed using a database as a private organisation is fraught with problems. Name and DOB are reasonably needed to assert the person's identity. Especially in France everyone carries an ID card so people can show ID and certificate together. Safeguarding private information is important but some must be disclosed as necessary.

What surprises me is that the person's address is stored there. It seems to me absolutely unnecessary, and I'm not even sure where they get it from as the address on record by Social Security is not supposed to be disclosed even to health professionals. I think this is only the address one gives freely to the vaccination/test center and which is not checked by anyone. I still can't think of any case where it would be…

According to the article the address is not included in the 2D-DOC QR code.

I agree with you that it's not useful information for the purpose of a "health pass" used to gain access to venues and events. On the other hand, as a matter of Covid response strategy and enforcement of any restrictions (so for the authorities at large) it is very useful to know where a person that has tested positive lives.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#63

Post by mytailorisrich »

lovasoa wrote: post #54
mlok wrote: post #52

"In the backend, it has a small SQL database which stores no personal information: just the list of invitees and their status." This status is private medical information : in France (and all Europe probably) it is illegal to store these datas, unless you use specialized "health datas secure hosting". You cannot legally do it yourself this way. French Official Documents : Health Datas Hosting : https://www.legifrance…

I don't think the status counts as medical information. It is an indication of whether you will participate to the event or not. Not participating may mean that you didn't want to participate, or that you didn't have a valid health pass. The database doesn't allow you to make the difference between the two. Otherwise, any guest list would now be "medical information".

Positive status implies a negative test result and negative status more than strongly correlates with positive test.

To me that's just semantics but in fact it is basically a medical status.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#65

Post by lovasoa »

JeanMarcS wrote: post #64

This app/website have nothing to do with official french government or authorities. It's an open source project [0] for those who eventualy don't want to use official app [0] https://github.com/lovasoa/sanipasse

I think it's made clear in the article, isn't it ?

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#66

Post by seszett »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #62
seszett wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What surprises me is that the person's address is stored there. It seems to me absolutely unnecessary, and I'm not even sure where they get it from as the address on record by Social Security is not supposed to be disclosed even to health professionals. I think this is only the address one gives freely to the vaccination/test center and which is not checked by anyone. I still can't think of any case where it would be…

According to the article the address is not included in the 2D-DOC QR code. I agree with you that it's not useful information for the purpose of a "health pass" used to gain access to venues and events. On the other hand, as a matter of Covid response strategy and enforcement of any restrictions (so for the authorities at large) it is very useful to know where a person that has tested positive lives.

That's right! I had read it wrong somehow. I don't find the information that is actually included to be too sensitive then.

It might have been useful in this case but the French government itself is not allowed to have a general-purpose database of citizen's addresses. Even the address that the social security has for contact purposes cannot be legally used for this (and is probably unreliable anyway as people forget to update their address when moving) and I don't think many people would have been comfortable with communicating their addresses for the purposes of Covid tracking.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#67

Post by mytailorisrich »

seszett wrote: post #66
mytailorisrich wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article the address is not included in the 2D-DOC QR code. I agree with you that it's not useful information for the purpose of a "health pass" used to gain access to venues and events. On the other hand, as a matter of Covid response strategy and enforcement of any restrictions (so for the authorities at large) it is very useful to know where a person that has tested positive lives.

That's right! I had read it wrong somehow. I don't find the information that is actually included to be too sensitive then. It might have been useful in this case but the French government itself is not allowed to have a general-purpose database of citizen's addresses. Even the address that the social security has for contact purposes cannot be legally used for this (and is probably unreliable anyway as people forget…

Of course they can collect addresses for this if they want. It's not a general-purpose database, either.

One problem we're having in this pandemic is the squeamish and "can't do" attitude on about everything.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#68

Post by tomjen3 »

admissionsguy wrote: post #46
maxerickson wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll probably stop shortly after France achieves a high enough level of vaccination to (more or less) stop community spread. Based on the UK, Israel and the US, 60% looks like it gets you pretty close to that.

Yup, even Denmark has recently announced plans to phase out the vaccine pass in a matter of months.

Yes, but it is going to phased out when everybody who wants to has had the shot, not when the most vulnerable has had it, over we get over 60%.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#69

Post by tomjen3 »

xdennis wrote: post #16
mytailorisrich wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general no, we don't. But pragmatically in the current circumstances this seems to be the best option (or least bad) until things are sorted.

> current circumstances As Milton said, "Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program." Officials have already hinted that masks, lockdowns, etc. will be implemented (at least seasonally) forever.

Milton is a genius, but this particular thing won't continue for the simple reason that, if as in Denmark, you have to be tested 3 times a week to have an always current pass, then the public will notice and be strongly incentivized to care.

And that kills these kinds of programs, unless there is a very good reason.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#70

Post by tomjen3 »

carstenhag wrote: post #29
WayToDoor wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They give you the paper at the vaccination center or when getting your test result.

In Germany this paper is just that, a paper. It has 0 safety measurements. You can get blank ones for cheap, via the internet or your doctor. From Biontech or the other vaccine manufacturers you can get the blank charge number thingies which you can then stick onto the paper. You have to fake a signage but nobody can tell whether it's fake or not.

The danish one has even less safety features, because it is your choice whether to use a printed document (which you can download as a PDF that you can then edit), through the official app or, by the SMS that was sent to you at the test place where you took your test.

You can trivially fake either, but you can also just claim you are excempt. Almost nobody is, of course, but they are not allowed to ask for documentation and must let the doubt come to your benefit.

In practice, this works mostly. Probably because people don't want to fake their tests, which is a serious crime.

Post reply on HN