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Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

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Re: Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

#231

Post by bArray »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #230
bArray wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. His "sarcasm" was that he now supports "flooding" the > country with what he called "violent low-iq brown". Again: "I don't find it funny or condone it". But, how do you know he isn't sarcastically echoing the point of view of a far-right person, or what other people believe his opinion should be? I think that given the right context (and/or delivery) this could be a joke to mock people for example. > I have ze…

I don't need to neutralize anything. They're not funny. I won't waste my time. And no, these kinds of people don't teach my children. People who make remarks like that in an Ontario school would be in real hot water. Even if it's a "joke". And yes, "joke" is in quotes for a reason. It's not a new phenomenon: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/23/alt-right... It's not about politics, man. I was very clear…

> I don't need to neutralize anything.

In the same way you don't need to donate to charity.

> And no, these kinds of people don't teach my children.

So you think some of these 1 million or so people aren't functioning members of society? How would you ever know if they hold these views privately and express them online under an alias? These are just the people who somehow collected onto this platform, I imagine many more exist (I happen to know many who are not online - and also far-right teachers (it's possible to do a job and not express politics)).

> And yes, "joke" is in quotes for a reason. It's not a new

> phenomenon:

> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/23/alt-right...

The "alt-right" is just a fuzzy term without any real meaning [0]: "The term is ill-defined, having been used in different ways by various self-described "alt-rightists", media commentators, and academics." It's a convenient bogey-man for people to claim they know the exact cause of some poorly defined group. Helps in writing articles and publishing papers I guess.

This whole subject is quite complex and I don't know how anybody could possibly effectively police "jokes" vs jokes without implementing their own bias, especially inside jokes. "I wouldn't spend so long replying to HN comments if they all just dropped dead". Is it a death threat, sarcasm, an inside joke, me spreading my anti-HN ideology? Who knows without context.

> It's not about politics, man. I was very clear.

Wikipedia: "Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism" [1]. Fascism is a political ideology. But it's really besides the point.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Re: Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

#232

Post by celdon25 »

nostalgk wrote: post #146
celdon25 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself pretty open to ideas across the political spectrum and even I could not stand being there for even an hour. Gab is what happens when you combine global centralization with extreme selection bias (people who are excluded or unwelcome from the global community platforms). It's like prison but for the Internet.

Prison, but full of people who want to be there.

That's debatable. I know a lot of conservative people. Even the ones who are not extreme (i.e. regular folks that believe in liberty) have a tendency to feel (perhaps rightly so) persecuted by the political correctness in the country/world.

Some people may turn to Gab with the feeling that it's the lesser of the evils, or the only place they can feel free from the vice grip of the power elite, but unfortunately that particular environment turns out to be not such a great role model. There are going to be breeding grounds for such views as long as there is an Internet, but those breeding grounds will grow in population in proportion to the additional prohibitions on speech imposed by the mainstream Internet platforms.

Re: Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

#233

Post by 52-6F-62 »

bArray wrote: post #231
52-6F-62 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't need to neutralize anything. They're not funny. I won't waste my time. And no, these kinds of people don't teach my children. People who make remarks like that in an Ontario school would be in real hot water. Even if it's a "joke". And yes, "joke" is in quotes for a reason. It's not a new phenomenon: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/23/alt-right... It's not about politics, man. I was very clear…

> I don't need to neutralize anything. In the same way you don't need to donate to charity. > And no, these kinds of people don't teach my children. So you think some of these 1 million or so people aren't functioning members of society? How would you ever know if they hold these views privately and express them online under an alias? These are just the people who somehow collected onto this platform, I imagine many…

You’re misunderstanding me. I have nothing to say to people who want to argue in bad faith about racism and other nonsense as if they have any valid scientific footing.

Please don’t cherry pick my remarks to make like there’s an argument to be had here.

By the way, that article is referencing a revival of a strategy employed much earlier on in the 20th century. It doesn’t hinge on “alt right” or anything else. Just bigots making an effort to normalize their bigotry.

Have a good weekend. It’s a long one here as we celebrate Canada Day.

Re: Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

#234

Post by 52-6F-62 »

nostalgk wrote: post #226
bArray wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than pointing at these people from a distance, sign up and talk to them. There is certainly a right-wing bias, sign up and change that? Also, one of the comments below: > Hank here is the only person on the Planet that can turn > Sarcasm into HILARITY........ I don't find it funny or condone it, but perhaps this is some sort of sarcasm. Looking at the account of "hank", they appear to right-wing and politicall…

I spend quite a lot of time around conservative people due to my hobbies, and I'd dare say a good amount of the people I meet could be considered semi-radical in their beliefs; at the very least, they are hardline and structured in their ideologies. I am not a conservative person, but I am very tolerant of their viewpoints and have spent a lot of time in conversation with them, helping them see my views and learning…

Well put. Thank you.

Re: Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

#235

Post by comntr »

kazinator wrote: post #205
comntr wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I agree that this problem has to be solved before this idea can hope to get wide adoption. Mr A posts something really evil on Mr B's facebook page. What happens next? Mr B files a complaint to facebook. Since this is a legal matter, the complaint gets escalated to the top. FB realises that this is out of their control and proceeds with a complaint to FBI. Now what if the data server with that comment is hosted o…

> Right, the browsers will quickly ban this extension. How is an open source browser going to ban an extension that throngs of people want?

Easily. Open source merely means that the source can be seen by anyone. It doesn't mean that readers of the source have any say in how to run the browser.

Re: Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

#236

Post by bArray »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #233
bArray wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't need to neutralize anything. In the same way you don't need to donate to charity. > And no, these kinds of people don't teach my children. So you think some of these 1 million or so people aren't functioning members of society? How would you ever know if they hold these views privately and express them online under an alias? These are just the people who somehow collected onto this platform, I imagine many…

You’re misunderstanding me. I have nothing to say to people who want to argue in bad faith about racism and other nonsense as if they have any valid scientific footing. Please don’t cherry pick my remarks to make like there’s an argument to be had here. By the way, that article is referencing a revival of a strategy employed much earlier on in the 20th century. It doesn’t hinge on “alt right” or anything else. Just b…

> You’re misunderstanding me. I have nothing to say to people

> who want to argue in bad faith about racism and other

> nonsense as if they have any valid scientific footing.

Are you suggesting that I'm acting in bad faith, or the commenter on Gab? I all honesty I think we're misunderstanding each other, that's always been the challenge of writing.

> Please don’t cherry pick my remarks to make like there’s

> an argument to be had here.

Please quote specifically what you think I've cherry picked, I haven't done so on purpose.

> By the way, that article is referencing a revival of a

> strategy employed much earlier on in the 20th century. It

> doesn’t hinge on “alt right” or anything else. Just bigots

> making an effort to normalize their bigotry.

Normalization of speech through sarcasm? I'm British, sarcasm/"jokes" is the language most of us speak normally anyway, it's how we laugh about our shared troubles.

> Have a good weekend. It’s a long one here as we celebrate

> Canada Day.

Have a good one.

Re: Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

#237

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Re: Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

#238

Post by 52-6F-62 »

bArray wrote: post #236
52-6F-62 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re misunderstanding me. I have nothing to say to people who want to argue in bad faith about racism and other nonsense as if they have any valid scientific footing. Please don’t cherry pick my remarks to make like there’s an argument to be had here. By the way, that article is referencing a revival of a strategy employed much earlier on in the 20th century. It doesn’t hinge on “alt right” or anything else. Just b…

> You’re misunderstanding me. I have nothing to say to people > who want to argue in bad faith about racism and other > nonsense as if they have any valid scientific footing. Are you suggesting that I'm acting in bad faith, or the commenter on Gab? I all honesty I think we're misunderstanding each other, that's always been the challenge of writing. > Please don’t cherry pick my remarks to make like there’s > an argum…

You’re asking more questions but I also clearly signed off. All the best.

Re: Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

#239

Post by floatingatoll »

brokenmachine wrote: post #183
floatingatoll wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The printing press has nothing inherently to do with worldwide instantaneous coordinated global same-day information sharing. A better analogy here would have been the telegraph, as that would at least serve as evidence on its own a rudimentary connection to whatever pithy point you’re trying to make with this reply. Unfortunately, your chosen example does not connect the dots so readily. Please clarify?

>it may be that we incorrectly solved a "problem" that turned out to be a feature keeping humanity from harming itself with its own speech OK. Explaining ruins the humor but I'll explain. The pithy point I was making is that a bunch of words on a comment thread is not likely to harm humanity any more than the printing press did. Or the writing on a toilet stall wall for that matter, now that I think about it. The lar…

Should anyone be permitted to skywrite anything they want on the sky?

Free speech says “yes”, but if you find a way to stably write sentences on the sky, you will quickly discover that the majority of people do not agree that free speech applies to writing in the sky.

There’s a nuance that we as tech haven’t explored properly between “you have the right to speak unhindered by the government” and “you have the right to impose your speech upon an unwilling audience”, which relates to why street speech generally can’t use PAs or bullhorns without triggering a local government response. Similarly, this is why coordinated protests must be super careful to block their rowdier elements.

Setting up a system of global commentary that “grafts”, “appends”, “overlays”, “applies” a collection of third-party uncontrolled speech onto a non-consenting website — so, literally, the addon linked by this post — could very well be considered “coordinating and imposing your speech on an unwilling audience”. This, then, is the ethical and social policy question.

Does this addon hinder free speech by encouraging and enabling unwanted, uncontrolled speech to be inserted into - using DOM overlays or browser sidebars - someone else’s controlled private forum?

For whatever reason, tech in general seems absolutely terrified to consider this question. I suspect that’s partly because it is a nuanced consideration that violates two popular tech precepts:

1) “uncontrolled speech is an inalienable right”

2) “anything that can be done technically must be permitted to be done”

Neither of those principles is true in general society, and so I hope someday tech confronts this dissonance and resolves it - rather than simply pretending that “this addon isn’t illegal” is sufficient to defend ignoring the wider ethical issues of its effects.

Re: Show HN: A Firefox extension to leave comments on any URL

#240

Post by closeparen »

comntr wrote: post #235
kazinator wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right, the browsers will quickly ban this extension. How is an open source browser going to ban an extension that throngs of people want?

Easily. Open source merely means that the source can be seen by anyone. It doesn't mean that readers of the source have any say in how to run the browser.

It means a user can comment out the parts they don’t like and publish their fork for like minded users to switch to.
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