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Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

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Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#221

Post by jsheard »

puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #191
jsheard wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nice!nano gets the job done but it's really expensive for what's ultimately just an nRF52 dev board in the ubiquitous Pro Micro form factor. They're $25 a pop and you need two for a split board, while you can get generic nRF52 Pro Micros on AliExpress for about $3.50 each. It's the same story with RP2040 Pro Micros for wired QMK builds, there's a huge "keyboard tax" if you get the ones marketed for that purpose.

I'm not sure why the 'pro micro' format is so popular. If you are already designing a PCB, why not plop an Atmega32u2 on it directly (assuming you dont need wireless)? You only need a crystal, two resistors, four caps and a usb connector.

It's just easier for people with less soldering experience, all the tricky SMD parts are already installed for you. Especially now that QMK has shifted from AVR to more powerful and readily available ARM chips like the RP2040, which are often only available in packages that are difficult to hand-solder. Plus designing a keyboard around the Pro Micro means you can use the same PCB for wired and wireless builds.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#224

Post by regularfry »

jsheard wrote: post #91
regularfry wrote: post #63

The unsung hero here is probably the nice!nano. Such a good little board. I've made my own split keyboard around them and it just makes so many things I thought I'd have to think about Go Away.

The nice!nano gets the job done but it's really expensive for what's ultimately just an nRF52 dev board in the ubiquitous Pro Micro form factor. They're $25 a pop and you need two for a split board, while you can get generic nRF52 Pro Micros on AliExpress for about $3.50 each. It's the same story with RP2040 Pro Micros for wired QMK builds, there's a huge "keyboard tax" if you get the ones marketed for that purpose.

It's more a convenience tax. The nano also has battery management onboard, which is one less thing to think about. But really at that price difference picking the nano over the bare pro micro has to save me less than an hour of design time and it's already paid for itself if I'm just building a keyboard for myself. If I was looking to manufacture something at any more than "it's just for me" scale it would be a different story but it's extremely well targeted at its niche.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#225

Post by [deleted] »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #200
nextos wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. Low-profile is nicer to joints in the long run, and also makes me type faster due to low-travel switches. Bonus points if it has a little bit of negative tilt. In this regard, I found Microsoft Sculpt really good because it ticked all ergonomic boxes but it didn't require relearning. However, quality was a bit subpar, it didn't offer a wired option, and it has been discontinued. The entire lineup was actually…

I loved th MS Sculpt (the "75%" one, with a layout similar to a laptop, only split). It started randomly failing for some reason, the only keyboard I've ever had to fail... But I don't think that being low-profile was what was nice on the joints with that keyboard, but rather the presence of the palm rest which didn't force the wrists to bend upwards. I now type on a "gaming" keyboard with full-size cherry switches,…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#226

Post by someothherguyy »

nextos wrote: post #152
jacobevelyn wrote: post #60

This is the keyboard I’ve been hoping Apple would make for years! I’ve currently got a UHK 60 but would probably switch to this if I could buy it. Especially if it had the standard Apple keyboard layout so my fingers don’t need to relearn things like arrow keys and cmd like when I switch between the UHK and MacBook keyboard.

Me too. Low-profile is nicer to joints in the long run, and also makes me type faster due to low-travel switches. Bonus points if it has a little bit of negative tilt. In this regard, I found Microsoft Sculpt really good because it ticked all ergonomic boxes but it didn't require relearning. However, quality was a bit subpar, it didn't offer a wired option, and it has been discontinued. The entire lineup was actually…

> Low-profile is nicer to joints in the long run

I think low profile is worse on joints in the long run. It probably isn't a universal truth.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#227

Post by jsheard »

regularfry wrote: post #224
jsheard wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nice!nano gets the job done but it's really expensive for what's ultimately just an nRF52 dev board in the ubiquitous Pro Micro form factor. They're $25 a pop and you need two for a split board, while you can get generic nRF52 Pro Micros on AliExpress for about $3.50 each. It's the same story with RP2040 Pro Micros for wired QMK builds, there's a huge "keyboard tax" if you get the ones marketed for that purpose.

It's more a convenience tax. The nano also has battery management onboard, which is one less thing to think about. But really at that price difference picking the nano over the bare pro micro has to save me less than an hour of design time and it's already paid for itself if I'm just building a keyboard for myself. If I was looking to manufacture something at any more than "it's just for me" scale it would be a diffe…

Pretty much every nRF dev board has battery management built-in, including the $3 AliExpress ones. The chip is meant for ultra-low-power applications so including battery management is a no brainer.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#228

Post by jacobevelyn »

robenkleene wrote: post #220
jacobevelyn wrote: post #60

This is the keyboard I’ve been hoping Apple would make for years! I’ve currently got a UHK 60 but would probably switch to this if I could buy it. Especially if it had the standard Apple keyboard layout so my fingers don’t need to relearn things like arrow keys and cmd like when I switch between the UHK and MacBook keyboard.

For folks looking for something similar that you can buy https://hellonuio.com/

Ooh thank you for the tip!

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#229

Post by sandreas »

ValentinPearce wrote: post #214
sandreas wrote: post #188

This is so funny, I dived into the custom keyboard rabbit hole just 3 weeks ago. Never thought this would be so intriguing and time consuming. Did you consider Mill-Max Sockets? My personal favorite are 80% TKL ISO low profile keyboards, which is quite uncommon and I've not found much except the Keychron K1 Max having this layout. Unfortunately, the integrated Gateron brown/red/... low profile switches are not my thi…

> I dived into the custom keyboard rabbit hole just 3 weeks ago Take your time, the GAS is real and expensive ! All jokes aside, ordering small batches of PCBs is unfortunately very expensive, especially if you have a larger size. If you ever feel the itch of going towards ergonomic split keyboards, you'll find plenty of ~40% splits that use reversible PCBs for both halves which allows for cheap batches. Typically yo…

> If you ever feel the itch of going towards ergonomic split keyboards

Unlikely. I caught my [nearly perfect] unicorn, but I'm not telling you what it is, because a.) it is too embarrassing and b.) don't wanna ruin your chase :-)

There are some hints I can tell you though:

  + it's low profile (Kailh)
  + it's TKL 80% and 100%
  + it's available ANSI and ISO
  + it's wireless
  o it's not split (I like it this way but it depends on personal taste)
  - it's NOT hot swappable
  - it's not QMK / ZMK
Probably I'm going to work on the hot-swappable thing via Mill-Max 7305 or 3305 (already ordered a pack), but the soldering will really take time, even if I use soldering paste and I have to order a second one for experimens.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#230

Post by zxter »

varispeed wrote: post #219
Umang018 wrote: post #218

This is really impressive, especially considering the complexity of designing a wireless split keyboard from scratch! Having built my own mechanical keyboard before (though not wireless), I know how much goes into PCB design, key switch selection, and firmware development. One challenge I’ve seen with wireless keyboards (especially splits) is managing synchronization lag between halves. Some DIY split builds struggle…

Maybe stupid question, but can split keyboard work as two separate keyboards connecting independently to the operating system? That way you don't have to synchronise anything.

There’s no issue with a computer recognizing two keyboards, but smaller keyboards often lack all the keys found on a standard one. So, you’ll need to use modifiers to create the keystroke and then send it to the computer. If you press a modifier on one half, the other half needs to be aware of it to send the final keystroke. Creating a layout with these modifier-based key combinations is just a small part of the many tricks you can pull off with custom firmware. While the computer thinks it’s connected to a standard keyboard, you can do some really deep customization on the keyboard side.
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