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Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

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Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#211

Post by kyllo »

ccalvert wrote: post #187
kyllo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, it's our fault that recruiters are now asking for Angular, because we sold our employers on Angular and built their apps in Angular. Now that Angular is mainstream and has fallen out of fashion, they need to hire more developers to maintain all those Angular apps we built for them.

Angular is helpful because it promotes things like loose-coupling, dependency injection, modularity, re-use and the factory pattern. I agree that two way data binding was oversold. It isn't a bad thing, just not the most important thing about angular. No doubt angular itself, and other libraries, will evolve. But I don't think angular is a mistake. It encourages developers to design applications the right way.

Angular is helpful because it promotes things like loose-coupling, dependency injection, modularity, re-use and the factory pattern.

Modularity and code re-use are like apple pie and motherhood. The real question is, do you need dependency injection and the factory pattern to get those things? In JavaScript, the answer is no you don't, because you have closures and first-class functions. Patterns like DI and Factory were invented to compensate for the deficiencies of Java, they are superfluous in JavaScript.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#212

Post by lhorie »

acdha wrote: post #200
lhorie wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they do. React has shouldComponentUpdate, Mithril has subtree directives, Mercury has thunks, etc. One big difference between vdom frameworks and KVO/dirty checking frameworks is that since the virtual dom tree is in plain view (pun intended), it's possible to use advanced features to micro-optimize the hell out of it, whereas other types of engines tend to be more "black boxy" and make these kinds of optim…

That only helps if you had poor state management and churning updates to things which hadn't changed. If you actually have a large number of DOM elements which need to be updated, you'll find that React is an order of magnitude worse than just using the DOM directly because it has to do that extra book-keeping multiplied by the number of elements.

Touching the DOM is by far the biggest bottleneck in performance. Of course for some arbitrary discrete task, hand coded DOM manipulation code is always going to be faster than a layer of abstraction on top of it. But the strength of virtual dom is that a single piece of code can handle insertions, deletions, sorts, splices and pretty much any data contortion you can throw at it without increasing code debt. Managing all of those w/ only the DOM API (or jQuery) as an application grows is difficult, and it's one of the main reasons why frameworks exist in the first place.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#213

Post by svl »

rattray wrote: post #134
rattray wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of the negativity has to do with the marketing. This isn't being sold as "a cool thing I made", but "Better MV-ish Framework" and "Faster than React". If you try to position it as better than existing alternatives, HN commenters will tear it down if they don't think it makes the cut. If you put it out as "exploring interesting new approaches", I think you're likely to see a lot less negativity here. Com…

@dang, if you're listening, an idea: make the "upvote" buttons invisible on stories that the user hasn't visited before. This could be done like so: // css a.upvote-botton:visited { visibility: hidden }; upvote triangle The href & onclick handlers would need to be added in javascript so as not to affect hn for non-js users.

That doesn't actually work in pretty much any browser, since it allows for history-mining by a malicious site. :visited styling changed a couple of years ago to only honor color changes, thus preventing most ways of exploiting that issue.

http://dbaron.org/mozilla/visited-privacy is one of the better resources explaining the issue more fully.

I guess you could create the triangle solely with CSS borders, and then style the border-color to be the same color as the background when not :visited

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#215

Post by slg »

aikah wrote: post #110
yummybear wrote: post #12

I think it's great that there is such an amount of active development in the JS sphere, and I'm sure your framework is fantastic - so don't take this as directed at your framework specifically. That being said... I am however feeling so overexposed to new libraries and frameworks that I can hardly muster the energy to even look at it. I constantly feel that I'm behind on my homework having to evaluate new libraries a…

> I am however feeling so overexposed to new libraries and frameworks that I can hardly muster the energy to even look at it. That's the nature of the job. In the front-end new frameworks are born all the time, new apis are created, new paradigms are "invented". Coming up with the "perfect" framework is clearly a work in progress. Here is a list of the techs I had to learn and work with during my career : - flex - jq…

The obvious followup question (not necessarily directed at you) is why do front-end technologies appear to be so much more transitory than back-end ones?

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#216

Post by thatbenlifetho »

kyllo wrote: post #25
kuyfiuyg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So don't study it then? It's perfectly fine to continue using what you are using. Most recruiters talking to me still ask for Angular, even if I consider it a little hairy and prefer not using it. After being in the JS sphere for a while and living with these changes, I have learned a lot. Because there is nothing new under the sun, these all do pretty much the same thing - but in different ways. There are tradeoffs,…

The problem is, it's our fault that recruiters are now asking for Angular, because we sold our employers on Angular and built their apps in Angular. Now that Angular is mainstream and has fallen out of fashion, they need to hire more developers to maintain all those Angular apps we built for them.

Haha, yep. I did that. Sorry, Future Me.

Love, Past Me.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#217

Post by hoprocker »

yummybear wrote: post #12

I think it's great that there is such an amount of active development in the JS sphere, and I'm sure your framework is fantastic - so don't take this as directed at your framework specifically. That being said... I am however feeling so overexposed to new libraries and frameworks that I can hardly muster the energy to even look at it. I constantly feel that I'm behind on my homework having to evaluate new libraries a…

This is seriously one reason I've been looking at career-switching to being a machinist. A new technology can come along, but it has to establish itself, and then you can take time and get really proficient at it.

That, plus the more grey hairs a machinist has, the more they're respected (usually).

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#218

Post by gclaramunt »

lectrick wrote: post #103
onaclov2000 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure if you don't have a family and kids, go ahead spend every second keeping on top of things, but not everyone is holed up in a dark corner just programming and researching new frameworks. It's not part of our job description, our job description is to ship, and if you're spending all your time re-building so you can be using the "new" hot gizmo framework, you're not shipping. Sorry you hit a nerve expecting everyo…

> Sure if you don't have a family and kids Family and kids are, by any measure, a huge time and energy sink. But that too is also important work that must be done, even if it has professional costs. The guys writing these new things, more often than not, don't have a family and kids and do have all that extra time. If you have committed to a family and kids, then join a shop where family people work and be content to…

> You don't have to keep up with everything, perhaps just general trends. Just watch out for that gentle slide into irrelevancy. ;)

I would argue that wasting time learning the JS "framework of the day" is not the best approach to stay relevant. Learn the logic and math behind programming and you can watch the industry slowly catch up...

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#219

Post by l1ambda »

lhorie wrote: post #70
yummybear wrote: post #12

I think it's great that there is such an amount of active development in the JS sphere, and I'm sure your framework is fantastic - so don't take this as directed at your framework specifically. That being said... I am however feeling so overexposed to new libraries and frameworks that I can hardly muster the energy to even look at it. I constantly feel that I'm behind on my homework having to evaluate new libraries a…

Take a look at Mithril. People are frequently surprised by its small learning curve (and for many, the majority of the learning is for knowledge that you can go and apply outside of Mithril)

I went from Backbone to Angular to Mithril, and published a blog post about it: https://medium.com/@l1ambda/mithril-vs-angular-vs-react-d0d6...

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#220

Post by nicklovescode »

ttty wrote: post #41

Thanks for highlighting 2 things: "Level UP your HTML" and "Two-way data binding".. Already made my decision, stick with react! (:

You perhaps have a reasonable criticism but there is no need to wrap it in a sarcastic insult
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