Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

graz.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 259 posts

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#191

Post by puzzlingcaptcha »

jsheard wrote: post #91
regularfry wrote: post #63

The unsung hero here is probably the nice!nano. Such a good little board. I've made my own split keyboard around them and it just makes so many things I thought I'd have to think about Go Away.

The nice!nano gets the job done but it's really expensive for what's ultimately just an nRF52 dev board in the ubiquitous Pro Micro form factor. They're $25 a pop and you need two for a split board, while you can get generic nRF52 Pro Micros on AliExpress for about $3.50 each. It's the same story with RP2040 Pro Micros for wired QMK builds, there's a huge "keyboard tax" if you get the ones marketed for that purpose.

I'm not sure why the 'pro micro' format is so popular. If you are already designing a PCB, why not plop an Atmega32u2 on it directly (assuming you dont need wireless)? You only need a crystal, two resistors, four caps and a usb connector.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#193

Post by jjani »

I'd definitely buy this to try if it works for me.

> Typing on the keyboard is very comfortable due to it’s low height. No more wrist arching.

Fully agreed. I went through many keyboards, from very expensive to very cheap, until I found the one my joints were okay with, and I think it was the lowest height of all. A cheap no-name, straight from Aliexpress. I think it's even lower than yours - hard to measure, but looks like ~4mm from table to top of keys. You can tell from the size of the USB-C port [1].

[1] https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sffc2751fa6184967aaa16f2a629ca166...

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#194

Post by jjani »

nextos wrote: post #152
jacobevelyn wrote: post #60

This is the keyboard I’ve been hoping Apple would make for years! I’ve currently got a UHK 60 but would probably switch to this if I could buy it. Especially if it had the standard Apple keyboard layout so my fingers don’t need to relearn things like arrow keys and cmd like when I switch between the UHK and MacBook keyboard.

Me too. Low-profile is nicer to joints in the long run, and also makes me type faster due to low-travel switches. Bonus points if it has a little bit of negative tilt. In this regard, I found Microsoft Sculpt really good because it ticked all ergonomic boxes but it didn't require relearning. However, quality was a bit subpar, it didn't offer a wired option, and it has been discontinued. The entire lineup was actually…

> Low-profile is nicer to joints in the long run

Very much so. I went through 10+ keyboards before finding one that I could type on for a day without aching joints. The only one that passed (which I'm typing this comment on), was the lowest out of all of them. Cheap Aliexpress keyboard, but it's maybe 4mm from table to keyboard. For those in a similar situation that want to try it, it's this one [1]. Definitely not "high quality", but saved me from inability to type.

Question for the keyboard-knowledgeable: it claims in this picture [2] to use scissor keys but the picture of its insides are pretty meaningless to me. Does their claim look to hold up?

[1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006265944802.html

[2] https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sf4d150eda2c4441490535d5f17ebfbfc...

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#195

Post by jjani »

crazygringo wrote: post #140
luqtas wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are right, i always considered the front of the keyboard what you considered the back, sorry for this (and by the way, i changed the link to a more generic one citing the variation of 90° -> 120° i typed of one easily finding by surfing the internet) on the 2° paper, > Among the five tested mice, the 25° or 30° slanted mice caused lower muscle activity and more neutral working postures for ECU, Trap and PT muscle…

No worries! Just trying to save people from wrist pain. :) And yes -- slanting the keyboard that way is usually called keyboard tenting . Also highly recommended, but difficult to implement in practice because it requires an even lower base for the keyboard, and there aren't many good accessories out there for it, sadly... I'm still waiting for someone to sell a cheap kit for angling keyboards downwards and implement…

I'd love an accessory that makes a keyboard completely flush with the surface it's on. I get this is hard because dimensions are different for each keyboard, but something that e.g. a Macbook fits into would be nice, given its standard size. Everyone's different but for me personally, I feel that would be a big ergonomic benefit. Supported by the fact that my current winner is the one coming closest to this ideal, being extremely low, maybe ~0.4cm from the surface.

Been toying with the idea of getting something 3d-printed, basically something just as high as a Macbook, that you can attach to the front of it, giving a flush surface. Even better would be carving a Macbook-bottom-shaped or external keyboard-shaped "recess" into a table to place it into.

Ever seen or heard of anything like this?

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#196

Post by sgraz »

w10-1 wrote: post #74

For next iteration, consider integrating trackpads? Moving to the mouse and back is pain enough that people go all-in on keyboard-only interfaces. I velcroed a trackpad to the middle of a Kinesis Advantage. Now I use either hand for the mouse, and even stretch a finger or thumb to the pad without leaving the keys. The movement is little different from using the keyboard. But for split keyboard, you'd need one trackpa…

Definitely looking into adding trackpad/trackpoint/touchpad(?) into the V2. And finding a way to do so without sacrificing the minimalist look and feel too much.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#197

Post by sgraz »

aredox wrote: post #6

Nice write-up. For something so thin, your soldering woes aren't surprising. The standard way to manage that would have been to solder everything in one go on a hot plate (reflow soldering). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QarizoUnRfk

Thank you, My first few attempts were with a SMD stencil and a 50x50mm hotplate, it's true that maybe a larger hotplate that could span the whole PCB might have done a better job. But with the smaller plate it was "easier" to just manually apply solder paste and do 4 switches at a time.

I think this method is also highly specific to these switches. They are known for being difficult to solder with hobby-tier equipment.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#198

Post by sgraz »

maltalex wrote: post #127

Nice work, very impressive! What software did you use to create the design? Any recommendations for CAD and PCB design newbies?

CAD for the case and keycaps was Fusion360 (Paid version to have Configurations which are clutch)

And the following subs were great for general CAD/Electronic knowledge

* https://www.youtube.com/@Fusion360School * https://www.youtube.com/@adafruit * https://www.youtube.com/@Borgedesigns * https://www.youtube.com/@TheFusionEssentials * https://www.youtube.com/@joe_scotto

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#199

Post by shellfishgene »

aredox wrote: post #6

Nice write-up. For something so thin, your soldering woes aren't surprising. The standard way to manage that would have been to solder everything in one go on a hot plate (reflow soldering). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QarizoUnRfk

I just reflowed a board in a cheap cast iron pan filled with some sand on my induction stove. Worked fine!

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#200

Post by vladvasiliu »

nextos wrote: post #152
jacobevelyn wrote: post #60

This is the keyboard I’ve been hoping Apple would make for years! I’ve currently got a UHK 60 but would probably switch to this if I could buy it. Especially if it had the standard Apple keyboard layout so my fingers don’t need to relearn things like arrow keys and cmd like when I switch between the UHK and MacBook keyboard.

Me too. Low-profile is nicer to joints in the long run, and also makes me type faster due to low-travel switches. Bonus points if it has a little bit of negative tilt. In this regard, I found Microsoft Sculpt really good because it ticked all ergonomic boxes but it didn't require relearning. However, quality was a bit subpar, it didn't offer a wired option, and it has been discontinued. The entire lineup was actually…

I loved th MS Sculpt (the "75%" one, with a layout similar to a laptop, only split). It started randomly failing for some reason, the only keyboard I've ever had to fail...

But I don't think that being low-profile was what was nice on the joints with that keyboard, but rather the presence of the palm rest which didn't force the wrists to bend upwards.

I now type on a "gaming" keyboard with full-size cherry switches, which is quite thick, and I don't have any wrist pain. Some 12 years ago, I used to have an Apple keyboard which was hell on my wrists, despite being quite low profile. The Apple didn't have a palm rest, the mech one does.

As to your typing speed remark, I suppose you already know that you don't have to bottom out your keys. I find I type faster on my mechanical keyboard than on laptops, and it's also easier on my fingers since there's no shock from bottoming out. It takes a while to get used to not press the keys all the way, but it's a much more pleasant experience. It's also quieter than the random HP domed keyboards we have at work or any laptop.

Post reply on HN