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Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

darwinmail.app

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Re: Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

#171

Post by DarwinMailApp »

city41 wrote: post #144
DarwinMailApp wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey there! I really wish Google would be clearer about what this means. This allows DarwinMail to create your email (when you use the compose functionality), modify your email, and send your email (when you click the send button). This also allows you to update and save drafts. https://developers.google.com/gmail/api/auth/scopes I hope that helps alleviate your worries somewhat :) We have reminder functionality avail…

You can read the emails I am composing, but not read the emails I receive? That is better, and I could always compose sensitive emails in gmail. So possibly I'd give this a shot with my personal email. I'd also like to use this at work, but Boomerang[0] was deemed not allowed, so I would imagine Darwin would also not be allowed. I'm guessing Darwin stores the reminder data on its own servers? That doesn't bother me,…

DarwinMail packages your email before it's sent into a raw format (that's not comprehensible text, but a mix of letters and numbers - like IBASDBAA2982NFIUEXJWI02FDIEWD) - but a lot longer!

When the mail is received on another client (Outlook, IMAP, etc) the client knows how to parse the email - to show it to you. I can't speak for other email clients, but I can tell you with all certainty, that DarwinMail does not store any of this email data. DarwinMail just displays it to you on your device.

The code is all available for you to look at. On DarwinMail just right click -> inspect and you can see everything.

Reminders are stored in your browser. They do not touch DarwinMail's servers :)

Re: Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

#172

Post by DarwinMailApp »

ddalex wrote: post #150
DarwinMailApp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part 3: How does DarwimMail actually work? So what happens exactly is: The user logs into DarwinMail.app, DarwinMail makes a login request to Google's servers, Google logs the user in, DarwinMail asks for the users emails at which point this data is rendered in the user's browser. None of this email data is stored on DarwinMail's servers. There is no need! Think of all the space it would take up and the time that wou…

I think there is at least one variant of the OAuth2 flow that doesn't require the use of servers to complete the authorization. I know Implicit Grant is broken in some ways, but Google supports it: https://developers.google.com/identity/protocols/OAuth2UserA... You also say this has been audited by Google. Mind if I ask under which program, and how did you get Google to audit it?

Thank you very much for your input here. You are 100% correct. It is the same implementation that DarwinMail uses.

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This document explains how to implement OAuth 2.0 authorization to access Google APIs from a JavaScript web application. OAuth 2.0 allows users to share specific data with an application while keeping their usernames, passwords, and other information private. For example, an application can use OAuth 2.0 to obtain permission from users to store files in their Google Drives.

This OAuth 2.0 flow is called the implicit grant flow. It is designed for applications that access APIs only while the user is present at the application. These applications are not able to store confidential information.

In this flow, your app opens a Google URL that uses query parameters to identify your app and the type of API access that the app requires. You can open the URL in the current browser window or a popup. The user can authenticate with Google and grant the requested permissions. Google then redirects the user back to your app. The redirect includes an access token, which your app verifies and then uses to make API requests.

--

DarwinMail basically sits on top of Google's servers and displays the data in the same manner (and in time using the exact same features + more) as Inbox did.

Darwin does not store any of your email data whatsoever. In fact, if it did, Google would have asked me to audit the tool - but they instead granted me Google verification. It took them almost a month to break down DarwinMail and make sure it did not store any user email data.

Further reading: https://developers.google.com/gmail/api/auth/about-auth https://support.google.com/cloud/answer/9110914

Re: Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

#173

Post by baldomo »

DarwinMailApp wrote: post #158
markovbot wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should probably mention that next you your statement about privacy. I would consider an email service that has Google analytics on it not terribly private

It is true that using Google Analytics does sound quite overt. The question remains, how else can I see where my users are visiting from, what browsers & mobile devices are they using so that I may better tailor DarwinMail?

I would suggest one of the alternatives listed at https://switching.social/ethical-alternatives-to-google-anal... . Fathom in particular is open source and can be self hosted

Re: Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

#174

Post by dancedar »

Do you have an issue tracker/feature request a la git? This would be super useful for all to provide feedback in a cohesive manner. Also, a reddit thread would get a lot more feedback as I'm sure there are many more with a reddit account than hn...I just signed up to hn to post...

Re: Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

#175

Post by amelius »

DarwinMailApp wrote: post #59
skybrian wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, 2+N companies depending on what servers the people you correspond with use. That's the nature of a federated protocol.

Ha ha. Very clever spin, and it's the truth!

However ... the larger N, the weaker the argument.

Because each of the participants has only a fraction of your e-mails.

Re: Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

#176

Post by appleflaxen »

I was excited to try darwinmail when I saw that keyboard shortcuts were front-and-center on the UI, anticipating a dev-centric tool for people who understand the efficiency of not having to use the mouse.

But then I used the app, and found that all the keyboard shortcuts were different :(

There was discussion on HN regarding the ability to customize them, but I think even more important is an option to "Use defailt GMail keyboard shortcuts"

Re: Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

#177

Post by appleflaxen »

your bug report / feedback form requires the creation of an account. many people who just tried the service and found a deal-breaking problem would give the feedback anonymously, but aren't going to want to create a new account just to provide feedback to a service they won't ever use again.

There are issues with anonymous forms, but consider the consequences of requiring an account/email.

Re: Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

#178

Post by scottgreenstone »

Started playing around with Darwin this week. It has great potential as an Inbox by GMail replacement. Looking forward to seeing a mobile version hopefully in the near future.

Biggest thing missing rightn now is Reminders integration with Google Calendar and Home/Assistant. For some reason Gmail is using Google Tasks instead and that is useless without complete integration with the Google Ecosystem, so Reminders is the right way to go.

Re: Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

#179

Post by scottgreenstone »

Another requirement to make this truly an Inbox replacement and not just a skin for Gmail is auto bundling such as Trips and Purchases, as well as the ability to customize the auto bundling if necessary. In addition the need to show bundles only at specific times like in INbox would be perfect for productivity.

Re: Show HN: I Built Darwin Mail as a Google Inbox Replacement

#180

Post by DarwinMailApp »

baldomo wrote: post #173
DarwinMailApp wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true that using Google Analytics does sound quite overt. The question remains, how else can I see where my users are visiting from, what browsers & mobile devices are they using so that I may better tailor DarwinMail?

I would suggest one of the alternatives listed at https://switching.social/ethical-alternatives-to-google-anal... . Fathom in particular is open source and can be self hosted

Wow! Thank you for those suggestions.

I've looked into Fathom before. I quite like what's offered. And the fact that's it's open source is the cherry on top :)

Thank you very much for the suggestion and for giving me a direct link to check out more.

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