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Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

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Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#131

Post by maerF0x0 »

vi-mode wrote: post #80

OT: for those who have never been in leader/managerial positions: - Leading people is 1000x less fun than coding - Leading people makes your more money than as an avg coder - Leading people too long makes you lose your technical skills slowly - At some age and for most, there's no other option than leading, 'go or grow' - Leading bigger headcounts is comparable to competitive sports 24/7 and shouldn't be underestimat…

> - Leading bigger headcounts is comparable to competitive sports 24/7 and shouldn't be underestimated

Would you please expand on this point? What do you mean and how so?

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#132

Post by nvarsj »

proc0 wrote: post #129

I'd love a blog about how to AVOID becoming a manager as an engineer or technical person. It really seems "contributors" are at the bottom of the pyramid, especially in companies whose core business is not technical in nature.

It's not particularly hard. Just never accept a leadership position :). As long as you keep your technical skills sharp, you should never be short of a job. However your income will likely plateau very early in your career. You can try to become famous as a way to counteract that, but it is substantially harder than just going into leadership.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#133

Post by vi-mode »

thewanisdown wrote: post #127
vi-mode wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hint: you should never frame your reports in such a way ('leaders under me'), 101 of leadership; but let's move on: I think we are not talking about the same; managing people has no short-term feedback loops like coding, it can be fun yes but many confuse this fun with the status involved; from a rational perspective and with the experience of heading larger headcounts (did you lead 100+ teams for a longer time?) pai…

Holdover from the military. I can see you're framing it as "beneath", which would be very inappropriate, but it references "under your charge". Thanks for pointing out that it could be misconstrued. I am sorry to hear you have not enjoyed your time leading a large group. It certainly has its challenges, but I assure you it can be quite fun and rewarding.

This is getting a bit too deep now. I didn't say that I didn't enjoy it. I like challenges, my initial notion was just to express that words like 'fun' are far away from what leadership is. Btw, you didn't answer the question if you led 100+ people for a longer time. Besides and no offense, military, authoritative leadership styles might not be the right approach in tech environments (like those where engineers work).

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#134

Post by vi-mode »

mettamage wrote: post #128
vi-mode wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but the context here is coder transforms to manager. And coders got coders because they like short feedback-loops.

Nope, I became a coder because I want to be able to create apps that I have in my head. I hated coding for the first 6 months (I'm on year 8 now). Now I like it, but I'm still not passionate about it. My passion is about digital creation. I think I'd like being a manager, depending on the context. Since I like to talk and listen to people their ideas and get energy from talking and listening. I don't get energy from…

Nice that you told us the story why you got into coding. I just tried to find an abstraction for the sake of simplicity. Of course we had all our triggers why we got into coding. And of course we had some specific end goal like you had but the actual activity of coding is about short feedback loops. Something which many professions lack. If you didn't like short feedback-loops you wouldn't code for 8 years.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#135

Post by thewanisdown »

Impossible wrote: post #125
vi-mode wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hint: you should never frame your reports in such a way ('leaders under me'), 101 of leadership; but let's move on: I think we are not talking about the same; managing people has no short-term feedback loops like coding, it can be fun yes but many confuse this fun with the status involved; from a rational perspective and with the experience of heading larger headcounts (did you lead 100+ teams for a longer time?) pai…

What is the proper way to frame reports? "leaders reporting to me", "managers I manage"?

DNA evidence works well.

In all seriousness, I recommend not referring to them as "reports" at all. Call them "My Team", "us", "we". It creates a sense of collective ownership.

When talking up, I use specific names, or "the team" to reference tasks or successes, and "I" when we talk about failures. I own what goes wrong, they own what goes right.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#137

Post by thewanisdown »

vi-mode wrote: post #133
thewanisdown wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holdover from the military. I can see you're framing it as "beneath", which would be very inappropriate, but it references "under your charge". Thanks for pointing out that it could be misconstrued. I am sorry to hear you have not enjoyed your time leading a large group. It certainly has its challenges, but I assure you it can be quite fun and rewarding.

This is getting a bit too deep now. I didn't say that I didn't enjoy it. I like challenges, my initial notion was just to express that words like 'fun' are far away from what leadership is. Btw, you didn't answer the question if you led 100+ people for a longer time. Besides and no offense, military, authoritative leadership styles might not be the right approach in tech environments (like those where engineers work)…

Quite a few years running teams up to 300, now about 3000.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#138

Post by vi-mode »

thewanisdown wrote: post #137
vi-mode wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting a bit too deep now. I didn't say that I didn't enjoy it. I like challenges, my initial notion was just to express that words like 'fun' are far away from what leadership is. Btw, you didn't answer the question if you led 100+ people for a longer time. Besides and no offense, military, authoritative leadership styles might not be the right approach in tech environments (like those where engineers work)…

Quite a few years running teams up to 300, now about 3000.

And you have time to be on HN?

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#139

Post by shantly »

swyx wrote: post #50
blowski wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grind of constantly learning the latest technologies eventually got boring, and now I really enjoy managing developers. For me personally, helping an unhappy or under-performing developer get out of their slump is a really rewarding experience. I don't enjoy long-winded, pointless meetings - but if you're organisation has so many of them, you'll get pulled into them anyway once you're senior enough.

i think i am an under-performing developer. if you dont mind sharing some secret sauce... what are the first questions you think about asking to diagnose whats going on?

FWIW I've given up on trying to gauge my own performance. I've plainly been disappointing people when feeling like I'm working about has hard as I could. I've (over, and over, and over) been complimented on both the quantity and quality of my output when I feel like I'm half-assing it, at best. There doesn't seem to be a much relation between how I feel like I'm working and what others perceive.

Re: Show HN: I wrote a book for engineers that want to become engineering managers

#140

Post by thewanisdown »

vi-mode wrote: post #133
thewanisdown wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holdover from the military. I can see you're framing it as "beneath", which would be very inappropriate, but it references "under your charge". Thanks for pointing out that it could be misconstrued. I am sorry to hear you have not enjoyed your time leading a large group. It certainly has its challenges, but I assure you it can be quite fun and rewarding.

This is getting a bit too deep now. I didn't say that I didn't enjoy it. I like challenges, my initial notion was just to express that words like 'fun' are far away from what leadership is. Btw, you didn't answer the question if you led 100+ people for a longer time. Besides and no offense, military, authoritative leadership styles might not be the right approach in tech environments (like those where engineers work)…

With regards to the military, good leadership works in any organization. I do not speak to my engineers the way I would speak to a platoon, but I lead them the same.
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