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Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

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Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#101

Post by lhorie »

moopsy wrote: post #74
lhorie wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at Mithril. People are frequently surprised by its small learning curve (and for many, the majority of the learning is for knowledge that you can go and apply outside of Mithril)

Tired of looking at new javascript frameworks? Look at this javascript framework that will fix everything!

Funny. But the "will fix everything" mentality is ironically why most frameworks are hard to evaluate and learn.

For learning, what you really want is a small set of new concepts to learn that easily map to things you are already familiar with, good documentation to refer to, and a active community that can answer your questions within a couple of minutes. That's why I mentioned Mithril.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#102

Post by astoilkov »

smrtinsert wrote: post #98

I wish js authors would stop baking functional apis into their libs and let the available contenders (ramda lodash underscore) do it for them. this reminds of the days when everyone published their own psuedo oo js lib. yuck.

I am actually considering removing the functional API. I agree lodash is better. It just doesn't make sense to use something that is not proven.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#103

Post by lectrick »

onaclov2000 wrote: post #92
lectrick wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I constantly feel that I'm behind on my homework having to evaluate new libraries and frameworks showing up. Every two weeks, another one shows up with another paradigm shifting approach. Every two weeks ? Try every day. I hate to be that guy, but this sounds like whining. You're a developer, it's an incredible privilege (we're part of one of the fastest-growing, most-successful businesses ever, and we basically ge…

Sure if you don't have a family and kids, go ahead spend every second keeping on top of things, but not everyone is holed up in a dark corner just programming and researching new frameworks. It's not part of our job description, our job description is to ship, and if you're spending all your time re-building so you can be using the "new" hot gizmo framework, you're not shipping. Sorry you hit a nerve expecting everyo…

> Sure if you don't have a family and kids

Family and kids are, by any measure, a huge time and energy sink. But that too is also important work that must be done, even if it has professional costs.

The guys writing these new things, more often than not, don't have a family and kids and do have all that extra time. If you have committed to a family and kids, then join a shop where family people work and be content to use yesterday's stuff to get work done, it will still work fine for the most part. You don't have to keep up with everything, perhaps just general trends. Just watch out for that gentle slide into irrelevancy. ;)

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#104

Post by AlexC04 »

kuyfiuyg wrote: post #18
yummybear wrote: post #12

I think it's great that there is such an amount of active development in the JS sphere, and I'm sure your framework is fantastic - so don't take this as directed at your framework specifically. That being said... I am however feeling so overexposed to new libraries and frameworks that I can hardly muster the energy to even look at it. I constantly feel that I'm behind on my homework having to evaluate new libraries a…

So don't study it then? It's perfectly fine to continue using what you are using. Most recruiters talking to me still ask for Angular, even if I consider it a little hairy and prefer not using it. After being in the JS sphere for a while and living with these changes, I have learned a lot. Because there is nothing new under the sun, these all do pretty much the same thing - but in different ways. There are tradeoffs,…

I "failed" a job interview recently to the reason that they didn't have faith in my jQuery (any by extension Javascript) skills.

I managed to write a multi-page response explaining how the modern frameworks were moving away from jquery in favour of data bindings, virtual dom, etc... while I acknowledge that there is still a place for jQuery, it has a very much diminished role in modern web development.

In the end, I never sent the email in response. While it was cathartic to write, I really didn't want to come across as "sour grapes". (and truth be told, I respected their decision... I'd feel a better fit in a more technology forward environment, their reliance on "old faithful" technologies can still make money)

I feel like even angular has come-and-gone as a framework the 1.x just isn't performant on busy pages. Anything with a log of ng-repeats gets out of hand. Though I suppose that could also mean that I'm writing bad pages too.

My most recent favorite is Leo Horie's https://lhorie.github.io/mithril/ We've got some of that running in production and it really is beautiful to work with.

I'd like to try REACT, but haven't found the right project for it yet.

I've sortof started rambling here... my point was I share your experience with employers looking for "old" tech.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#105

Post by idibidiart »

mambodog wrote: post #6

It's not hard to be faster than React, React's performance benefit comes from the fact it makes performance easy to understand and optimise rather than just being magically (but opaquely) fast. However, the real reason React is a good choice is not performance, but rather how it encourages developers to think about, isolate and better manage mutable state in their applications.

Correct. But React is also a step behind ClojureScript based React wrappers :) like Om and Reagent.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#106

Post by lectrick »

manigandham wrote: post #95
lectrick wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I constantly feel that I'm behind on my homework having to evaluate new libraries and frameworks showing up. Every two weeks, another one shows up with another paradigm shifting approach. Every two weeks ? Try every day. I hate to be that guy, but this sounds like whining. You're a developer, it's an incredible privilege (we're part of one of the fastest-growing, most-successful businesses ever, and we basically ge…

Come on, I'm a full-stack guy and worked on lots of teams/projects/companies. I have yet to see a need to stay on top of every new development constantly, especially JS frameworks that still need to be proven. None of the productive developers I know care about all the daily/weekly noise, if something is truly new and good it'll become known on a monthly or quarterly scale. And about job description - developers are…

> the business doesn't care and would rather have something that works

True, but unless you own the business, the business' goals are not your goals. The business wants a working product; you need to stay relevant in a career. Sometimes these may align, but not always.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#107

Post by lectrick »

spenczar5 wrote: post #93
lectrick wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I constantly feel that I'm behind on my homework having to evaluate new libraries and frameworks showing up. Every two weeks, another one shows up with another paradigm shifting approach. Every two weeks ? Try every day. I hate to be that guy, but this sounds like whining. You're a developer, it's an incredible privilege (we're part of one of the fastest-growing, most-successful businesses ever, and we basically ge…

> man-up and ask your superiors for more. Or woman-up, right?

Yes. Person-up. Adult-up, whatever. I'm not very PC. ;)

For the record, I changed it to (wo)man-up.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#108

Post by smrtinsert »

mambodog wrote: post #6

It's not hard to be faster than React, React's performance benefit comes from the fact it makes performance easy to understand and optimise rather than just being magically (but opaquely) fast. However, the real reason React is a good choice is not performance, but rather how it encourages developers to think about, isolate and better manage mutable state in their applications.

100% agreed. Working now on angular app at work (not my choice) I see state flying everywhere which will inevitably lead to something awful. The argument to push it back into a main controller and let it flow downward only seems completely unrealistic if not impossible and the api certainly doesn't encourage it at all.

Meanwhile in Clojurescript I have undo functionality without thinking about it - mind blowing because it's something I never expected to see in a web app without much pain.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#109

Post by norman784 »

Will be hard to compete with those big libraries like angular and react, b/c they have yet a large community, IMO I like angular on top of react (didn't like the way you create DOM with javascript, tried it 2 years ago, maybe it evolve but I doubt it).

Also I'll wait till the project get more mature and get a significant community, b/c I'm not with the energy to learn every library that come out there, maybe will test with some small project but not with big projects, yet.

Keep working on it, but try to make it more intuitive and easy to use (didn't read well the docs, but just seen it quickly). ;)

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#110

Post by aikah »

yummybear wrote: post #12

I think it's great that there is such an amount of active development in the JS sphere, and I'm sure your framework is fantastic - so don't take this as directed at your framework specifically. That being said... I am however feeling so overexposed to new libraries and frameworks that I can hardly muster the energy to even look at it. I constantly feel that I'm behind on my homework having to evaluate new libraries a…

> I am however feeling so overexposed to new libraries and frameworks that I can hardly muster the energy to even look at it.

That's the nature of the job. In the front-end new frameworks are born all the time, new apis are created, new paradigms are "invented". Coming up with the "perfect" framework is clearly a work in progress.

Here is a list of the techs I had to learn and work with during my career :

- flex

- jquery

- extjs

- backbonejs

- angularjs 1.x

- Reactjs

- angularjs 2.X

And i'm only talking about "view frameworks" here. Not even about the crazy js pipelines involving build tools, running on nodejs , 3 different CSS pre- processors , ...

And in 1 year i'm pretty sure i'll have to work with yet another new framework because managers think framework Z isn't cool enough anymore.

Again that's the nature of the job,because front-end techs are evolving. Everybody was praising backbone 3/4 years ago. Then everybody was praising Angular then everybody is praising React as the new hot stuff.

In the front end, either you keep on learning new stuff, or you're out of job.

Those who believe they have "job security"(as I read in this thread) because they chose angular are lying to them self.

Being a front-end developer means having to learn a shit tons of libraries , techs and apis everyday. You can't just tell yourself , "I'll learn X and i'll be all set" like with server-side techs.

Yet today the biggest challenge isn't even choosing a framework, but more like choosing how to transition from ES5 to ES6. Because the tools aren't ready.

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