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Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

eliot.blog

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Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#101

Post by 1-6 »

xnx wrote: post #20
lionkor wrote: post #5

That's a very neat project. The only issue I have with it is that it's basically a passive energy waster. It produces images by burning GPU power, when it could instead curate art from an existing amount of art (of which there is more to ever go through, almost in any category). Some projects that use AI could be replaced with other tech and be much more efficient.

The cost (and environmental impact) of generated images is a rounding error compared to the $7,500+ project cost. As an aside, I wonder how much smaller and faster a diffusion model could be if trained (quantized?) to 4-bit grayscale images.

$2,500 for a display isn’t too bad considering that real art can cost much more.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#104

Post by Dave_Rosenthal »

I've looked, and it doesn't seem to exist, but I still can't believe there isn't an emissive display on the market that can just emulate the look of a passive display. (i.e. match the 'white' of the display to inbound light)

All you need is a high quality RGB light sensor or three and an accurate way to dim a backlight. None of this seems very hard. Sure, it wouldn't show the shape of shadows or whatever, but it would still be highly effective. Why can't the image just go black when I turn the lights off?

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#105

Post by ggm »

Dave_Rosenthal wrote: post #104

I've looked, and it doesn't seem to exist, but I still can't believe there isn't an emissive display on the market that can just emulate the look of a passive display. (i.e. match the 'white' of the display to inbound light) All you need is a high quality RGB light sensor or three and an accurate way to dim a backlight. None of this seems very hard. Sure, it wouldn't show the shape of shadows or whatever, but it woul…

The Samsung art series TV has fooled me in an AirBnB. It took me quite a while to realise it wasn't an expensive framed print.

It was daylight in a well lit bright room. The frame and background were just right to look like modern simple poster framing. The minute sun set, of course it stopped looking right. Thats when I realized we had a TV after all.

My partner pointed out the art had changed at least two times across daylight hours. I had just blanked that out.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#106

Post by rnk »

BoorishBears wrote: post #86
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. Because it's a lot easier and cheaper to manufacture large LCD panels at scale than E-ink film. >It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price. I don't know any company or shareholders that would say no to making more money so if this would actually be true then it would, but that's n…

I didn't downvote... but if you're being downvoted it's probably for ignoring the flywheel effect needed to scale novel tech in the market. Yes e-ink has high wastage, and yes demand is low, but having had a strong arming expensive patent holder didn't help the situation. The patents are actually expiring/expired but at some point the damage is already done. A great corollarly to e-ink is 3d printers: they were very…

Great points. Plus almost everyone always gets downvoted for everything, then it comes back. I always wonder why many of my "brilliant" comments get downvoted, but often come back by the next day.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#107

Post by tambourine_man »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #67
tambourine_man wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m browsing this link for a good 5min. Looks interesting. I get that it tries to simulate paper, but I have no idea how. Even the “explore technology” link has little extra detail. I don’t even know if it’s backlit.

It’s just a tv with a picture frame and some additional software/wallpapers

Thanks. The selling copy in dumb because the product is.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#108

Post by KennyBlanken »

spullara wrote: post #87
red_hare wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dream is, when these finally come down in price, to build a dynamic DnD map.

Why not just put any other kind of display flat and put glass over it to protect it? Edit: Someone has your dream display already :) https://www.etsy.com/listing/1463146123/43-4k-dnd-tv-table

[flagged]

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#109

Post by mikewarot »

LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #70
bigfudge wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be interesting to hear from an insider (with examples/evidence etc) what the mechanism is for eink to be more expensive. I/e/ the fundamentals for why this is the case beyond economies of scale. Given this history of the patent it looks to the outsider like this probably isn't the case and short sighted rent seeking is the problem. Would love to be wrong though, so if you do have a good explanation t…

I’m sure the ad-driven subsidy on TVs plays a huge part. TV prices have declined as “dumb” TVs have been phased out of the market. A more niche tool like a large e-ink display might not make as much sense from to price this way since ad systems need large networks of users to be relevant.

As a check against this, I looked for 42" computer monitors, which don't display ads. There are $600 4k 42" monitors in stock at CDW, for example. The same size 4k SmartTVs are about $300. So, yes... there appears to be about a 50% discount for TVs vs Computer Displays, part of which could be a subsidy, most of which I suspect is volume driving down the cost of production.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#110

Post by mikewarot »

rnk wrote: post #106
BoorishBears wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote... but if you're being downvoted it's probably for ignoring the flywheel effect needed to scale novel tech in the market. Yes e-ink has high wastage, and yes demand is low, but having had a strong arming expensive patent holder didn't help the situation. The patents are actually expiring/expired but at some point the damage is already done. A great corollarly to e-ink is 3d printers: they were very…

Great points. Plus almost everyone always gets downvoted for everything, then it comes back. I always wonder why many of my "brilliant" comments get downvoted, but often come back by the next day.

Downvotes are emotionally driven, and limited to -4 (I think)... upvotes on the other hand, have no apparent limit.
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