The reason you're successful is because no one rational will compete in this space because of the legal liability. I've seen that many times, segments which are profitable until you realize the legal quagmire you've wandered into and appreciate very well why no one else is doing it.
Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!
91–100 of 151 posts
Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!
#92How are you getting your bitcoin? Are you mining, or buying it at retail (coinbase, etc)? You are providing a channel for money laundering, so you will likely come under scrutiny if this gets popular.
Retail.
Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you expand on this? Because the way I'm reading it it sounds like since it "could" be a tool for money laundering the OP shouldn't be doing it. But by that logic a car "could" be used to facilitate a bank robbery and therefore the salesman needs to consider those ethical ramifications.
There's a huge difference between this and a car salesman. A car salesman goes through all sorts of paperwork and meets with the person they are selling the car too, and they hand the keys over. This is much more similar to the service where you take a photo of a Key and you get mailed a copy of it for 5$; except it's semi-anonymous with bitcoin.
Are you proposing that a car salesman might refuse to sell someone a car on the chance that the buyer could be a criminal of some sort?
Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you expand on this? Because the way I'm reading it it sounds like since it "could" be a tool for money laundering the OP shouldn't be doing it. But by that logic a car "could" be used to facilitate a bank robbery and therefore the salesman needs to consider those ethical ramifications.
It's far more akin to a guy who sells guns out of his trunk in a dark alley. Chances are, it's being used for crime, even if there are legitimate uses for it.
No, because selling guns out of your trunk is a crime more often than not. This is a poor analogy.
Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here you go: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d5570d7646c5... [(5) Money transmitter (i) In general. (A) A person that provides money transmission services. The term “money transmission services” means the acceptance of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency from one person and the transmission of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency to another location o…
But this is so general that lots of business would fit. A bitcoin pool ambiguously, perhaps, transfers value too. Why are they so non-neutral about this, and does it help us that they are?
It's not about transferring value - it's about substituting currency-equivalent value. What's the substitution going on in a mining pool? (And don't say electricity for coin, electricity is not valued similarly to a currency. Similarly 'claim on mining output'.)
Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here you go: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d5570d7646c5... [(5) Money transmitter (i) In general. (A) A person that provides money transmission services. The term “money transmission services” means the acceptance of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency from one person and the transmission of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency to another location o…
But this is so general that lots of business would fit. A bitcoin pool ambiguously, perhaps, transfers value too. Why are they so non-neutral about this, and does it help us that they are?
Lots of businesses fit, but only ones with cash to take or political points to score will be targeted.
Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is exactly why I am horrified by the number of bitcoin companies cropping up. I can only assume many of them have no idea what they are potentially exposing themselves to from a legal perspective.
> I can only assume many of them have no idea what they are potentially exposing themselves to from a legal perspective. Or an ethical perspective even.
Money laundering is not unethical. It wasn't even illegal in the US until 1986. At the time the law was passed we were promised it would only be used against organized crime that couldn't be stopped any other way.
Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not a bad idea if you're running the service anonymously. Isn't running an anonymous (or unregistered) money transmitting service itself illegal?
[deleted]
I think the issue here is that you could use a stolen card to buy Starbucks cards and sell them to this guy for btc. This guy is then going to swallow the loss when the fraud is detected. Credit card thief gets away with bitcoin.
Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ha, thanks, I'm looking forward to the docs. Re: fraud I've definitely been disillusioned that I can handle the tide myself, but OTOH I imagine fraud prevention is a lot like security- make sure the wall is higher than the water. I'll just have to figure out how to do that in a way that's safe, economical, and keeps the core idea behind the service working. It will almost certainly involve hiring people, or cutting o…
Here you go: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d5570d7646c5... [(5) Money transmitter (i) In general. (A) A person that provides money transmission services. The term “money transmission services” means the acceptance of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency from one person and the transmission of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency to another location o…
Thanks. In touch with a couple lawyers now.
Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you expand on this? Because the way I'm reading it it sounds like since it "could" be a tool for money laundering the OP shouldn't be doing it. But by that logic a car "could" be used to facilitate a bank robbery and therefore the salesman needs to consider those ethical ramifications.
It's far more akin to a guy who sells guns out of his trunk in a dark alley. Chances are, it's being used for crime, even if there are legitimate uses for it.
One marked advantage to buying a gun for cash in a private sale is that the state won't know that you have it.
While I don't necessarily believe that would lead to acts of malice such as confiscation raids, it has already led to bonehead moves such as publishing over the public network the names and addresses of all registered gun owners in an area.
Also, people buy illegal moonshine when legit liquor stores are available. People buy cigarettes sold in the wrong state or from a tribal reservation. Buying a gun from an alley is a possible choice for someone who would otherwise prefer to bypass taxes, paperwork, and bureaucracy--illegal, of course, but not necessarily a prelude to a different crime.