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Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

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Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#91

Post by kybernetikos »

Jaruzel wrote: post #26

The penny has just dropped with me. This scenario is exactly where Starlink[1] can shine (no pun intended). Find a way to get uplink routers into the locked down country and it would be impossible for totalitarian governments to block internet access completely. -- [1] https://www.starlink.com/

It's funny how people jump to spacex for this sort of thing. For a number of reasons I don't think that they will have very much interest at all in providing connectivity in politically difficult situations. To me, companies like https://lynk.world/ are more interesting for this use case.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#92

Post by selectodude »

gambiting wrote: post #89
selectodude wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moscow built an entirely second subway deep under the first for government use only so this isn’t at all out of the ordinary.

Isn't the D6 system a myth made up for Metro 2033? Or at least never really confirmed?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-2

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#93

Post by andai »

gambiting wrote: post #89
selectodude wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moscow built an entirely second subway deep under the first for government use only so this isn’t at all out of the ordinary.

Isn't the D6 system a myth made up for Metro 2033? Or at least never really confirmed?

Tell me, if it is true they do not exist, how can it be that I have eaten one?

Alleged photos of D6: https://web.archive.org/web/20150609013409/http://vk.com/alb...

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#94

Post by gnarea »

varjag wrote: post #73

There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. The only reason the limited networking is still up and running is not some residual generosity of the regime. It is because traditional PSTN and long range special comms ser…

> There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. > What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country.

Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off.

Who has the ability _and_ incentive to carry out such an attack? You could hire someone to do a DDoS attack, for example, but who would pay for that?

Let's say you've pulled it off. Have you considered the collateral damage?

Can we be certain that whoever has the capacity to do this will only ever use it "for good"? What's "for good" anyway?

Have you even considered that not all the people who remained connected in the country may be government officials? I don't know about this specific Internet blackout, but quite often other organisations (e.g., international NGOs, consulates/embassies, hotels) remain connected (see this for example: https://qz.com/africa/1884387/ethiopia-internet-is-back-on-b...).

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#95

Post by [deleted] »

nix23 wrote: post #88
viraptor wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, that's why I wrote "hope" and mentioned it's not perfect. But "the consumed and delivered message can always be seen" is just incorrect. IF both sides destroy either the message or the encryption keys for it, then no, it can't be seen. (Just the metadata about it being sent)

> is just incorrect. Your thinking is too narrow, i just make a screenshot of your message, or filming your Video from the Screen, that's what i mean by 'consumed', but yes if both party's delete the message normal encryption is enough even 'just' with forward secrecy, but the metadata is often much more interesting (even the NSA said that).

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#96

Post by jschwartzi »

Why not get some RG 6 or RG59 and use it to deploy MoCa networks to wireless transmitters? Illicit coax would be difficult to distinguish from legit coax and you could do runs of several hundred feet between buildings. If someone knows what they’re looking for they’ll be on to you but the equipment is not very big.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#97

Post by varjag »

gnarea wrote: post #94
varjag wrote: post #73

There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. The only reason the limited networking is still up and running is not some residual generosity of the regime. It is because traditional PSTN and long range special comms ser…

> There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. > What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off. Who has the ability _and…

In fact I don't think you can do that with DDoS attack easily. What I had in mind is more like a physical attack on switching equipment at a handful of branch exchange or backbone stations. That would require getting the network layout documentation, but IT sector in Belarus is enormous and well connected.

Yes there will be collateral of course, the most serious is to emergency response services who use the same network.

I realise it sounds a bit like that Death Star vent attack, but it is still more realistic than a Bluetooth mesh network that doesn't fold with more than a handful users.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#98

Post by zoobab »

urza wrote: post #90

https://disaster.radio/ disaster.radio is an off-grid, solar-powered, long-range mesh network built on free, open source software and affordable, open hardware. Designed to be open, distributed, and decentralized, disaster.radio is currently in the prototype/development phase.

this is only for short messages via Lora, 40 chars at a time last time I tried.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#99

Post by adam-p »

Psiphon (disclosure: where I work) largely kept Belarusians online: https://psix.ca/d/nyi8gE6Zk/regional-overview?orgId=2&var-re... (Note that the 0 values before the blocking aren't really zero -- they're just below the threshold that we publicize. And connections aren't users, but... it's still a lot of people.)

There's a smattering of third parties confirming this, like: https://beincrypto.com/psiphon-connects-beincrypto-journalis...

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#100

Post by jitteriest »

petre wrote: post #76
brabel wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, it's very difficult to know if the people who want protests to stop (even if they hate their government) are more numerous than the people who want the protests to continue and grow until the government can be replaced (with, from what I know in Belarus, is extremely unlikely - given that there's zero opposition prepared to take over the Government). But at least for now, things seem to be calming down…

Russia will take over or get involved. Do not kid yourself that they won't. Belarus has a direct border to Russia. They'll probably use protests to install a pro Kremlin government just like they did in Ukraine before Euromaidan sent him fleeing to Russia.

They are effectively one country already.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State

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