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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#851

Post by user5994461 »

nvarsj wrote: post #756
user5994461 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, the money in London has always been in the finance sector. Both large banks and hedge funds.

I think even in finance you'll be unlikely to touch 400USD (~300 GBP) for a similar level. Sure there are outliers, but of the senior people I know in this area total comp is around 200GBP after many years. It's much easier to just contract (if you don't mind the mercenary role), you'll make similar due to the tax savings.

That seems about right. 100-200k GBP in London, 200k-400k USD in the USA. Standard packages for people with a few years of experience.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#852

Post by lgregg »

awad wrote: post #671
lgregg wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I doubt I'll even bother to apply to the big 5, maybe even the big 20. I'm coming out of a yearlong software intensive in October with a liberal art major from a marketing background. I know a few people at those companies but there is also the question of leetcode. I think my chances are much higher with other types of companies, startups included.

For what it is worth, we LOVE people with your background for both technical and non-technical roles. If you're ever interested in at least exploring a startup in the marketing technology space, feel free to reach out!

Thanks! What’s a way I can contact you? I’d love to learn about what’s out there. If you don’t want to post here then you can email me at “lassitergregg” at gmail.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#853

Post by kevinsoup »

I was the first engineer at Crittercism/Apteligent which was acquihired by VMWare. I was there for about 5 years before I moved on to Google.

Pros.

* Lots of fun engineering solutions however I wanted to solve the problem. Moved fast.

* Learned tons. Had to touch every part of stack.

* Great culture initially. Everyone was open to helping out as well as going out.

Cons.

* Low pay.

* Growing pains. Visible shift from devs dictating the product to doing mundane things that customers wanted (necessary evil, but obviously less fun).

* Hiring of execs once you get big enough. I was unhappy that I worked there for 4 years but some guy who came in and did nothing got 4x my salary and 100x my stock.

You should never, ever join a startup if your motivation is money. Most of them fail and you end up with nothing (as I did). Even if you're an amazing engineer and think you can push it over the top, you will probably end up as a staff software eng at google in the same amount of time making 500k a year.

The only reason to work at a startup is for the learning and for the fun. You need to leave if you aren't achieving either of those, unless you're certain you will make bank. Don't bother about loyalty to the company because it certainly isn't loyal to you.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#854

Post by docker_up »

mariusz331 wrote: post #848
docker_up wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Cap Table hell. If you're only there for 3 months, why should you get rewarded when chances are you didn't contribute anything to the company? I think a 1 year cliff makes even more sense for a startup than an established company because you really should contribute something before hitting the cap table as someone with employee options.

I think you can contribute a meaningful amount to a startup in 3 months. Arguably the top reason to join a startup is to make faster impact. I'm not saying this is possible at all startups, but most startups yes. Options/equity are a component of your compensation and I'm questioning the reasons we wait a year to get it. I think it would be more employee-friendly to smooth out the vesting schedule. Startups seem to b…

I disagree, I don't think anyone can contribute meaningfully in 3 months. I think a one year cliff is perfectly reasonable for a startup. We will agree to disagree, but I don't think any startup will agree with you, it rewards people who stick around for too short a period of time and makes their cap table much harder to maintain.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#855

Post by awad »

lgregg wrote: post #852
awad wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it is worth, we LOVE people with your background for both technical and non-technical roles. If you're ever interested in at least exploring a startup in the marketing technology space, feel free to reach out!

Thanks! What’s a way I can contact you? I’d love to learn about what’s out there. If you don’t want to post here then you can email me at “lassitergregg” at gmail.

In the bio :)

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#856

Post by docker_up »

mkirklions wrote: post #846
docker_up wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook and Google and others make their money globally. They don't actually make a lot of money from Silicon Valley that's just where their workers are. I can't think of a more diversified, protected stream of income than one of the FANGs right now, even if the US has a recession, there are still countries around the world that will be doing better.

>I can't think of a more diversified, protected stream of income than one of the FANGs Arent they 100% tech and nearly 0 physical products? That is not what I learned 'diversification' is.

Your definition of diversification is flawed.

Their customers are diversified not only across product sectors, but across the globe. Unless internet traffic or engagement drops, which it hasn't yet and probably won't until a new technology replaces it, they don't need physical products to make the billions upon billions that they do.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#857

Post by rhizome »

acconrad wrote: post #129

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

I had an extremely similar experience, but I do have a beef with the founders for not compensating me fairly with respect to the work I did in helping them create something they could eventually sell to a large company. [Before anybody throws shade, the site was developed by a Flash dev, a Java team for webdev, and me building the backend and running things as a solo sysadmin.]

None of these people are your friends, get as much as you can.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#858

Post by scottlocklin »

Pros: for even the worst startup there are fewer useless people, bureaucrats and insane witch hunt types than there are in a large business. You learn more if you're a go-getter and your work can really make a difference.

Cons: your returns are way more volatile -CAPM adjusted, I'm pretty sure it's not worth it, and if you're trying to learn things and need formal mentoring rather than 'self serve' you won't get it.

I can't stand bureaucracy and non-contributors with power over my life, so I prefer small startups.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#859

Post by rhizome »

bittcto wrote: post #635
acconrad wrote: post #129

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

TLDR: 30 years experience, I learned: don’t go work for a SV style startup. Be a founder, even if you have no experience. Don’t take VC money for more than %10 of your equity in total. Better off, right out of school, founding a company and failing than working for a startup, especially if they take VC. It’s lopsided against the founders too. They might walk away with big checks but the risk is too high. This is the…

This is partly YCs fault because they basically groom startups and usher them into the maw of VCs while glorifying the exploitative VC model

I believe this is a part of culture that VCs are creating. I've been interviewing lately and I've noticed certain personality traits among YC founders that I'll call "Business Sheldon." I saw it a bit 5 years ago when I went to Startup School, but it's pretty pervasive now, so much so that I see it as a red flag. If you've seen the latest season of Silicon Valley, the character that Dan Mintz played touches upon this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzbwLktN60c

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#860

Post by rhizome »

evancharles wrote: post #738
acconrad wrote: post #129

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

Interestingly YC has encouraged startups to offer more equity to early employees and I'm not sure it's had an effect. See pg's recommendation in http://paulgraham.com/equity.html

If it had an effect, it would be apparent after 11 years.
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