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Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

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Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#841
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is not an issue for people immigrating from Europe.

In what way? Unless I've missed something significant the visa options for those emigrating from Europe to the US are limited. What options are there other than the H1B?

Not 'significant' but you can use L1 internal transfer visas after you work for a while in a branch of an American company.

American company also means a sales or support office (if registered correctly) of a European company.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they don’t because having an average pay in Europe is still preferable to having a high pay in America.

I suspect you don't have any evidence for this claim. Looking at immigration numbers, a far higher percent of Europeans move to America than Americans move to Europe.

Do you have evidence for that claim ?

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#843

One option is to emigrate to the United States, driving up pressure on the engineers who remain. My near-term ancestors all left Germany due to poor wages and a tendency for Bismarck to sacrifice draft-age men in wars, and while moving to the US helped their own status it also did a bit to increase pressure at home.

Pre Brexit, there was > 500 million people in the EU with free movement between member states, most tech companies still sourced a substantial number of their employees from outside the EU - some even had majority non EU tech employees. The only jobs filled by locals were those which had artificial cap on employee numbers and local regulations(accountants/legal) Whilst some of these engineers were A+ level brilliant,…

Can you support those claims ? at least in Sweden this is far from being the reality

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home process in the US are historically very stable. I would think this is also true in Europe? As for diversification, your house shouldn’t be your only investment. As for fires and natural disasters, this is why insurance exists. Owning a home isn’t for everyone, but I don’t think there’s anything particularly risky about it as far as investments go.

Buying a home in a tolerable location costs at least 200k in my area and upkeep isn't free either. I can rent an apartment in a much better area for fifteen to twenty years for just the initial investment. A house can easily lose its value or at least cause large expenses, e.g. if the cellar floods or develops mold problems. Or if the surrounding neighborhood becomes worse. Selling houses has a large transaction cost…

Like I said, owning isn’t for everyone (my point is only that it’s not an extraordinarily risky investment contrary to the OP’s claim). 5k a year isn’t rent in most places.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#845
post #810

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

> I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement Which country? You should definitely be saving for retirement

Sweden. I am saving but probably 60% of my "retirement savings" are mandatory payments (payroll taxes effectively) and if I save nothing at all, I'll still have a low-but-liveable pension. The last 40% of my pension or so is what I'm saving for, so basically it's the "extra". It's not nearly as much as you'd have to save in a country where you have to fund your whole retirement.

Also I don't think I'll want to retire very soon which helps the calculation. Saving durig a 50 year career to live 10-15 years is very different from saving for a 40 year career to be retired 20-25 years. I'm hoping to work to at least 70 or longer and that makes a huge difference too. I some times hear US devs talking about wanting to retire at 55 or 60 - which I'd want too if I didn't have summer off every year!

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s risky about the investment? I’m of the impression that real estate is one of the more stable investments, subprime mortgage scandals notwithstanding.

Doesn't that really depend on where and culture? If you bought a house in Detroit in 1965 you aren't likely doing well today. If you bought in San Francisco in 2019 you're probably under today (though that may fix itself). If you bought in Japan almost anywhere you now have a used house which like a used car only goes down in value. If you're lucky the land goes up but condos/apartments you don't usually own the land…

Yes, there are extreme examples, just like there are extreme examples in the stock market.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s risky about the investment? I’m of the impression that real estate is one of the more stable investments, subprime mortgage scandals notwithstanding.

divorce, for example, is one major risk

I don’t think this is any different than with stock market wealth.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#848
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average salary for a Software Engineer is $107K per year in United States. The average salary for a Software Engineer is $66K per year in Germany (~61% less). Source: indeed and payscale. I always find a bit funny when US devs in HN talk about getting salaries above $200K/year... when the average US dev gets half of that. (I find it funny because everybody here thinks we are above the average dev level and can ge…

I'm talking more about the possibility, not average. It's much easier to achieve 500k/year in Bay Area than in Europe. 500k/year can be achieved by being a senior engineer at one of the successful companies for a few years. The stock growth should take care of that, easily. There are probably like 100 of successful companies in Bay Area between 2010 to 2020. There are thousands of people achieving this in Bay Area. I…

> There are thousands of people achieving this in Bay Area.

thousands ? out of how many ? seems like a tiny fraction

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#850

This may sound stupid speaking as a non-american engineer, but do engineers really need to earn insane amounts? We already earn well above average, don't have to pay healthcare and bay area rent. I don't see many experienced devs/engineers complaining that they're not paid double like americans, because we already earn enough to keep us in a decently above average lifestyle.

please define "need"...
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