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Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#81

Post by lotsofpulp »

edent wrote: post #19

Citroën Ami is about as low tech as you can get. If you want something more car-shaped, the Renault Zoe has very few tech feature. Similarly, Kia Soul has a reversing camera… and that's about it! No radar, lane assist, carplay or anything like that. Cstomers only want 3 things. A comfortable ride, a safe journey, and $thing. The problem is, everyone's one more thing is different. I want DAB radio, you want cruise con…

> Similarly, Kia Soul has a reversing camera… and that's about it! No radar, lane assist, carplay or anything like that.

According to Kia’s website, the cheapest Soul you can buy has CarPlay/Android Auto. Standard feature on the “LX”, 8in touchscreen.

Does it even cost anything for an automaker to allow phones to use the screen for CarPlay/Android Auto? The cost savings must be so miniscule, and the convenience of being able to use your phone to navigate/listen to music and other audio is immense.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#82

Post by iamleppert »

I'm determined to never buy a new car again. My 2016 Honda Civic will be the last car I ever drive, if I can help it. I own it, no car payment, its reliable, it works, it's not electric, efficient, no self driving features, no phone home, no Elon Musk, just an unsexy regular car and I couldn't be happier. Pure bliss.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#83

Post by lotsofpulp »

jerf wrote: post #39
bell-cot wrote: post #3

The really difficult and expensive part is manufacturing decent cars, at scale. The profit margins on that part generally suck - so Capitalism says "hahaha...NO". The pretty-easy-and-cheap part is adding glitzy screens to cars. Doing that gets most people all excited...and willing to shell out far more money. In an extremely well-run socialist country, there'd probably be good, low-tech electric cars.

The car industry has an unusual profit curve. They have huge, huge fixed costs. It's not just the factory, it's the testing, compliance, marketing, etc. However, the price you pay for a car is substantially more than the marginal cost of producing it. So that industry is a famine-or-feast industry. Either they are losing money in mind-boggling quantities, or they are making money in mind-boggling quantities. There is…

>So that industry is a famine-or-feast industry. Either they are losing money in mind-boggling quantities, or they are making money in mind-boggling quantities. There is not a lot of in between.

Search profit margins for Toyota/Ford/Volkswagen/Mercedes/BMW/Honda/etc

All are in the 5% to 10% range, which is objectively a middle of the road profit margin.

Mind boggling is what tech/oil/pharma/finance does, at 20%, 30%, even 40%+ profit margins. Which is why they are at the top of market cap rankings.

https://companiesmarketcap.com/

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#85

Post by constantcrying »

They are illegal and people don't want them.

Yes, it really is as simple as that. Legality aside, making such a car a reality is at the very least 1B€ in development cost (you have to do a new electronics architecture and probably a new platform variant). You will never make a profit on such a car. The customer base is tiny and expects low prices, but low prices can only be achieved with high volumes.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#86

Post by tracker1 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #75
JohnFen wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I understand that it's a cost-savings measure by the automakers, but that's not relevant to me as a car owner. If the added expense is so onerous to the automaker, then they can raise the price of the car to make up for it. I'd buy that, where I won't buy a car that has inferior controls. Why would I, when there is still a plethora of older cars available that better meet my needs?

Not many would be willing to pay $1000 more for more buttons.

Compared to how much auto makers inflated car prices the past few years?

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#87

Post by meowster »

constantcrying wrote: post #85

They are illegal and people don't want them. Yes, it really is as simple as that. Legality aside, making such a car a reality is at the very least 1B€ in development cost (you have to do a new electronics architecture and probably a new platform variant). You will never make a profit on such a car. The customer base is tiny and expects low prices, but low prices can only be achieved with high volumes.

What's illegal about a low-tech (aka "dumb") electric car? Is there a law that requires connectivity, or for manufacturers to abuse that connectivity?

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#88

Post by meowster »

nottorp wrote: post #53
edent wrote: post #19

Citroën Ami is about as low tech as you can get. If you want something more car-shaped, the Renault Zoe has very few tech feature. Similarly, Kia Soul has a reversing camera… and that's about it! No radar, lane assist, carplay or anything like that. Cstomers only want 3 things. A comfortable ride, a safe journey, and $thing. The problem is, everyone's one more thing is different. I want DAB radio, you want cruise con…

> Similarly, Kia Soul has a reversing camera… and that's about it! And the reversing camera is necessary because modern cars have tiny submarine like windows.

And it's required by U.S. law.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#89

Post by constantcrying »

meowster wrote: post #87
constantcrying wrote: post #85

They are illegal and people don't want them. Yes, it really is as simple as that. Legality aside, making such a car a reality is at the very least 1B€ in development cost (you have to do a new electronics architecture and probably a new platform variant). You will never make a profit on such a car. The customer base is tiny and expects low prices, but low prices can only be achieved with high volumes.

What's illegal about a low-tech (aka "dumb") electric car? Is there a law that requires connectivity, or for manufacturers to abuse that connectivity?

>What's illegal about a low-tech (aka "dumb") electric car?

That it can't meet regulatory safety standards. E.g. drowsiness detection or crash detection to call emergency services mean that any car can not be "low tech" in any meaningful sense. So the best thing you can possibly get is a high tech car, where user facing technologies have been removed. Needlessly to say, the market for that is miniscule.

Re: Ask HN: Why is nobody manufacturing low tech electric cars in 2024?

#90

Post by speg »

constantcrying wrote: post #85

They are illegal and people don't want them. Yes, it really is as simple as that. Legality aside, making such a car a reality is at the very least 1B€ in development cost (you have to do a new electronics architecture and probably a new platform variant). You will never make a profit on such a car. The customer base is tiny and expects low prices, but low prices can only be achieved with high volumes.

What is illegal?
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