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Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

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Re: Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

#71

Post by coolsebz »

JoelOtter wrote: post #56
coolsebz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually considering that! Where exactly do you study? I feel like around here they teach us too much math, but no practical stuff and I would like to give it a shot and study abroad

I'm at Imperial College London. It's great for me because the course is very hands-on (I'm in second year, and so far we've built a compiler and an operating system). If you're into the more theoretical stuff elsewhere might be better, but we're pretty highly ranked at the minute so it's a good degree. Lots of industry links too!

Now that sounds interesting! Thanks for this, I'll be looking for some more info!

Re: Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

#72

Post by juliogreff »

22 yo here, recently dropped out of college. I cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell what difference dropping out made to me.

To give some context: I lived in a small city in Southern Brazil, and I've been programming professionally since I was 16. Of course the money and the recognition were close to zero, because who trusts a kid anyway. Self-taught from the beginning, so by the time I got to university at 18 I was always the best programmer in the class, which made almost every class extremely boring. More or less 2 years later I started getting offers from big companies in Brazilian tech hubs like São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. Moving to another university meant losing almost 1 year worth of studies, so I decided to stay. But at this point I was convinced that I was worth something, and started working remotely for a company in Rio. I was in charge of a whole product, and the pay was ok for Brazilian standards. Since I lived in a small town, I was getting paid more than all my friends, even those that already graduated. I thought that I was on to something.

Last year I started working for an American company, and started getting paid a lot more. During the interview process, I wasn't even asked about my education, they just asked me to demonstrate what I knew (I understand that this is not universal to every company). This, combined with the fact that I finished all the college subjects that interested me, made me take the decision to drop out and move out of the country. Remote work is fun and all, but I missed the social contact with other people. Berlin was my first choice, and I started applying. I made it clear in every application that I was dropping out, and it didn't seem to make any difference, because I was getting interviews and ended up getting hired. So professionally dropping out did not hurt me at all, because I had the skills.

But not having a degree did make me life difficult. It was absurdly hard to get a work permit. Not impossible, but it required HR to get creative. So you have to be prepared to hit roadblocks every once in a while. I thought of giving up and going back home a few times, because it's really frustrating. In the end, everything worked and I'm more than one year ahead career-wise than if I had stayed and finished my degree.

So, should you drop out? Maybe, but be prepared for a slightly harder life overall. If you do decide to drop out, please do it as soon as possible, and don't wait a few years like I did. I feel I could be even better today if I had dropped out a year earlier. But YMMV.

Re: Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

#73

Post by harmont2007 »

coolsebz wrote: post #23
patio11 wrote: post #12

I'm not sure where you're physically located, but if you were a young cousin of mine on either the US or Japanese sides of the family, I'd tell you get the degree. If you feel that college is too easy mode for you, feel free to take more difficult or eclectic courses, or throw yourself into extracurriculars. (It's a great time to learn a foreign language.) Why get the degree? 1) Because there is no circumstance where…

Thank you for your response! I'm living in Eastern Europe, Romania; not exactly a tech hub, which is why the college level is so low :/ Most of what I've learned is from free available resources (books, lectures, you name it) Thanks for the points on why I should get the degree, they make sense!

A good university to get into (that I had gone through) is National University here in the US. Not only is it in a great city (Sunny San Diego, California), but also you learn some really useful tools in the programming field. There are a lot of international students from different parts of the world (India, Romania, Irag, Iran, China, Japan, etc) at National University. If you are not able to do that, check around your area for someone that is an expert in the field you want to be in and see if him / her can mentor you. Also, check out Matthew Moran's book called "Building Your I.T. Career." It is a great resource book.

Re: Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

#74

Post by coolsebz »

jakobe wrote: post #63
coolsebz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your response! I have felt a bit that the college I'm at is not really good for me, and that's the reason why I went online and got as much resources as possible (MIT OpenCourseware, Coursera, Udacity, Stanford lectures available). Those guys really do teach stuff! But it is out of my reach to go to one of those colleges, sadly :/

Why is it out of your reach? Because they are too expensive? If you want to study at a better college, look for professors in your field, find someone that does something interesting, and ask them if they will take you as a student. If you are good, some institutions will actually pay you for studying there. This is easiest if you already have at least a bachelors degree, and want to go to grad school. At least in Eu…

I didn't know I could talk to professors for this, but it sounds interesting! Thanks, I'm going to try this!

Re: Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

#75

Post by pyduan »

coolsebz wrote: post #23
patio11 wrote: post #12

I'm not sure where you're physically located, but if you were a young cousin of mine on either the US or Japanese sides of the family, I'd tell you get the degree. If you feel that college is too easy mode for you, feel free to take more difficult or eclectic courses, or throw yourself into extracurriculars. (It's a great time to learn a foreign language.) Why get the degree? 1) Because there is no circumstance where…

Thank you for your response! I'm living in Eastern Europe, Romania; not exactly a tech hub, which is why the college level is so low :/ Most of what I've learned is from free available resources (books, lectures, you name it) Thanks for the points on why I should get the degree, they make sense!

Here are two other arguments in favor for college on top of patio11's:

1) While you may be worried about the depth of the content in your field, be aware that college is also a great way to acquire breadth: this is the best way to be exposed to ideas you wouldn't have encountered before, and I'd encourage you to take courses outside of your field. Economics, philosophy, or political science come to mind as topics that may not be directly useful to you in your career but do help tremendously in understanding the world around you and being a more complete individual in general. This is also a great time to live and study abroad, which is a great life experience in general. This will also be very useful if you ever decide to branch out and work in a different field, where you may feel your lack of degree much more than in tech.

In addition there is nothing wrong with getting "extra coursework" in college. Unlike high school, the goal here is to learn for your own sake and there is always the possibility to dig further if you're interested in acquiring highly specialized knowledge.

2) A degree is not simply useful for convincing old-school employers. You work in tech, so I assume there is a probability that you may want at some point or the other want to check out the scene in the US. If this is something that interests you, be aware that it is tremendously harder to get a work visa to the US if you don't have a higher education degree. Most work visas will require a degree or equivalent work experience; for the US bureau of immigration, "equivalent work experience" generally means 3 years of work for each year of school, which means you won't be eligible for a H1B for another decade. I do not know how it is for other countries but I assume many have similar requirements.

tl;dr: a degree will allow you to hedge yourself against the future. If you're bored, there are always opportunities for you to diversify your interests, seek more specialized knowledge in your field, or work on your own side projects.

Re: Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

#76

Post by coolsebz »

makmanalp wrote: post #65

The problems most people have with candidates not having a degree are: a) It's harder to prove they know their stuff b) there's an impression that they are bums and shied away from hard work, or somehow lacked the intelligence and drive You can solve both of these issues by taking your career seriously. Getting your foot in the door is going to be harder at first because you're young and you have no degree, but it se…

Thank you! I like the idea of being important in the community and I think that definitely is helpful! Thanks!

Re: Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

#77

Post by nevvvermind »

coolsebz wrote: post #23
patio11 wrote: post #12

I'm not sure where you're physically located, but if you were a young cousin of mine on either the US or Japanese sides of the family, I'd tell you get the degree. If you feel that college is too easy mode for you, feel free to take more difficult or eclectic courses, or throw yourself into extracurriculars. (It's a great time to learn a foreign language.) Why get the degree? 1) Because there is no circumstance where…

Thank you for your response! I'm living in Eastern Europe, Romania; not exactly a tech hub, which is why the college level is so low :/ Most of what I've learned is from free available resources (books, lectures, you name it) Thanks for the points on why I should get the degree, they make sense!

Romania, eh? Well, let me "enlighten" you about this one. Romania IS a tech hub. I don't know how much you've been in the field, but the market here exploded some years ago. We've become an outsourcing paradise. Good, cheap work. Demand is pretty high. So don't worry - you'll get your share. With or without college.

Now the not so cool part: just get that degree, one way or the other. Especially if it's related to the field you want to work in. The govt has some strategies to facilitate graduates into the work market: as a graduate, your employer pays 16% less taxes for IT graduates. You'd LOVE the faces of the HR people when they hear you're not a IT student/graduate.

The above is just one of the more "direct" implications of you having a degree. There are more. As employing goes, the "upper-class" languages (Java, C#, C++) tend to require it. PHP, HTML/CSS, Ruby - not so much.

Another advantage is that the employers here voraciously search for IT students and they grab them even from the second year. They invest in degrees, as those at the very least, guarantees them a basic knowledge, on which they can build, as the student is perceived as a long-term investment.

Then there's the human nuances - future prospects, getting employed outside the country (if you're into that), self-perception (if you're into that, too).

Do you want me to continue?

You are passionate, I can respect that. But college is not about passion or destroying it - it's about market placing (in Romania at least). Sooner or later, you'll think about that. Oh and I heard that IT college can be a blast when it comes to same-minded people. My bet is you'll find lots of passionate people in there.

I'm a Romanian ex-"bum" (wanna hang out?), philosophy and maths college drop-out, now a passionate programmer, having a hard time getting into a Java - mainly because of the degree. I should know.

Re: Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

#78

Post by vectorpush »

You're me almost a decade ago. A couple semesters into college, I picked up a part time role as a junior developer. Since, like you, I had already been programming for years, I exceeded expectations and became highly valued by my employer. Part time became full time, and I started to make a lot of money for a college kid. At the same time, I was learning so much from my work that school seemed to wane in utility, really only complicating my work schedule where I was being paid well to enrich the exact skill-set I wanted from the beginning. Finally, I decided to quit school.

I continued in that position for a total of four years. Another five years and several positions later, I am doing quite well for myself, especially compared to my peers, graduates and non-graduates alike.

With all that stated, my only regret is that I didn't finish that damn degree. Get your degree. What I omitted from the above is the unending doubt and disrespect you will face as a professional without a degree. It was only after I was making tons of money that my peers stopped endearingly regarding me as a lazy drop out. Despite the wealth of prospects available to me as an experienced developer, I have faced numerous professional rejections simply because I did not have a degree to show.

Returning to school never gets easier for anyone, but you're facing a double whammy in that not only is the cost of tuition going up, but so is the cost of the hours you'll spend at school instead of working.

Re: Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

#79

Post by coolsebz »

navait wrote: post #70
coolsebz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this is something that I haven't been thinking about! I will definitely ask about the possibility of starting with my masters, because that sounds like a real challenge! Thank you!

I actually have a professor from Romania who might be able to help you, if you give me a private email address to contact you, I can give you his name. (I don't want to post it publicly on HN)

Absolutely, that would be more than helpful! coolsebz@gmail.com

Re: Ask HN: A 19 year old, what should I do?

#80

Post by ThePawnBreak »

coolsebz wrote: post #23
patio11 wrote: post #12

I'm not sure where you're physically located, but if you were a young cousin of mine on either the US or Japanese sides of the family, I'd tell you get the degree. If you feel that college is too easy mode for you, feel free to take more difficult or eclectic courses, or throw yourself into extracurriculars. (It's a great time to learn a foreign language.) Why get the degree? 1) Because there is no circumstance where…

Thank you for your response! I'm living in Eastern Europe, Romania; not exactly a tech hub, which is why the college level is so low :/ Most of what I've learned is from free available resources (books, lectures, you name it) Thanks for the points on why I should get the degree, they make sense!

Hey! I'am also from Romania.

Where do you study?

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