Okcupid still exists and operate in this manner. So do other platforms. The reason why it does not proliferate like it used to has to do with the short attention span of the population, and in general, the attention economy. You can’t have people answer 1100 questions anymore. You can, however, put pretty people on the app for them to swipe left or right, and that drives people way more than Doing work to get a match…
Anyone serious is willing to fill that stuff out, and I did when I was single. Those sites aren't popular because they don't work very well.
Ask HN: Why don't we bring back old school OkCupid?
71–78 of 78 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why don't we bring back old school OkCupid?
#72An interesting challenge with dating sites is that the “bell curves” of attractiveness versus desired attractiveness between men and women aren’t symmetric. This leads to difficulties running a dating site because women will only say yes to 9/10 or better men, but men will message anyone with a pulse which in turn inflates female expectations. Many women only ever join dating sites as an ego boost, with no intention…
That might sound good in theory, but no one is going to sign up for that. Who will want to pay $50 to not meet up with the creep some algorithm has set them up with? Honestly, it's kinda dangerous.
Penalized for not matching with what you say you want to match with.
Charged $ for not appearing for a date you had already agreed to.
Re: Ask HN: Why don't we bring back old school OkCupid?
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but most are just overwhelmed by the shotgun approach That’s the whole point of this approach — women don’t get drowned in spam from men. Instead it’s the equivalent of a trusted friend or relative setting you up with someone they know will suit you. Evidence is that that works out better.
"Instead it’s the equivalent of a trusted friend or relative setting you up with someone they know will suit you." A random dating app is a "trusted friend or relative" now? Sorry, that's not a reasonable expectation. I mean, go for it, if you think it'll work. It's easier than ever to spin up an MVP. But, if I were a betting man, my bet against this working, especially with women, would be very, very, large. Not onl…
It would, at scale, where there's sufficient data to train some decent embedding models to accurately judge partner compatibility. As a machine learning exercise, this is "easy". Heck, Facebook does it, possibly without even "trying" to implement dating specifically! I regularly get spammed with "suitable single women" as friend suggestions by Meta. I'm not single, but as dating suggestions go, they're actually not half bad! If I was single, I'd reach out to some of the recommendations for sure.
They've clearly implemented this exact feature, but they bootstrapped it by having a billion+ people in their system and trillions of interactions between them already. They didn't start out as a dating site.
Similarly, I've heard that LinkedIn is now more of a "single professionals dating site" than a career-making / job-seeker site, at least for a decent fraction of its userbase.
This is eminently solvable, and people do use these systems to find partners.
The nigh-insurmountable challenge is boot-strapping a dating-only site from scratch.
Re: Ask HN: Why don't we bring back old school OkCupid?
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anyone serious is willing to fill that stuff out, and I did when I was single. Those sites aren't popular because they don't work very well.
can you describe what wasn't working very well about them?
I switched to Tinder and its clones back then. It was so much simpler and actually led to matches. It's not even shallow really; there is a bio, which is already more than you see meeting someone IRL. Every app that tried to "make it more wholesome" or whatever just made it worse, even though I was only using those for serious dating.
Re: Ask HN: Why don't we bring back old school OkCupid?
#75> What is stopping someone, aside from patents, from making a match based dating site to compete with the current market? Demand. Old-school dating was like cocaine and the swiping-oriented apps are crack. It doesn't mean there would be no demand for an old-school OKC clone but it's a niche play and given Match Group's dominance, the capital you'd need to invest to compete would be significant.
Re: Ask HN: Why don't we bring back old school OkCupid?
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Instead it’s the equivalent of a trusted friend or relative setting you up with someone they know will suit you." A random dating app is a "trusted friend or relative" now? Sorry, that's not a reasonable expectation. I mean, go for it, if you think it'll work. It's easier than ever to spin up an MVP. But, if I were a betting man, my bet against this working, especially with women, would be very, very, large. Not onl…
> if you think it'll work. It would , at scale, where there's sufficient data to train some decent embedding models to accurately judge partner compatibility. As a machine learning exercise, this is "easy". Heck, Facebook does it, possibly without even "trying" to implement dating specifically! I regularly get spammed with "suitable single women" as friend suggestions by Meta. I'm not single, but as dating suggestion…
I'm not saying online dating can't work, and I've said nothing about whether data about people makes matches better.
I am saying you have presented an absolutely batshit crazy and dangerous idea of how it ought to work.
Edit: It sounds like you've designed a dating app optimized for angry men who feel shorted by women on dating apps. But, there's never been too few men interacting on dating apps. If you're optimizing for men's comfort on a dating site, you have failed to learn the lesson of "ladies night" at bars. If your site is full of single women, men will show up. The opposite is not true, if it feels punitive and risky to women.
Re: Ask HN: Why don't we bring back old school OkCupid?
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's begging the question! If The Match Group is a steady supplier of startup exits in this space, that should incentivise more people to start. So we should see more people trying to resurrect old school OKCupid, not fewer. Though I suspect the answer isn't that people aren't trying, but that these trials don't succeed enough for OP to notice.
Every site requires enough people using it to make it worthwhile. This is especially hard outside of major cities. The more apps there are, the smaller the pool in each one. This is a problem for having too many app, and also a problem for the early days with any new app. For users, these apps exiting by selling to Match is a bad thing. I’d want an app with a very stubborn founder who hates The Match Group and wants…
Yes, I didn't argue against that!
I said that Match Group reliably buying upstarts would make it easy to found and fund these upstarts.
> Every site requires enough people using it to make it worthwhile.
You can solve user acquisition via VC money; which you could get relatively easily, if Match Group were to reliably buy upstarts.
> Anyone starting with an exit in mind has already failed in my book.
I am trying to work out why we aren't seeing more startups in this space (VC-funded or otherwise). That question is independent of whether we think they are morally worthy.
Re: Ask HN: Why don't we bring back old school OkCupid?
#78The people who can innovate in this space either don't have the mental and/or capital bandwidth to do so, or don't want to deal with the absolutely massive amount of moderation that it would require. I met my wife on OkC in 2006, years before the Match acquisition. I have long been furious about what Match did to the site after they bought it in 2011, and have long fantasized about creating something that could retur…
Wow, this thread blew up -- I think you hit on the core issue, and one that I hadn't thought enough about. Moderation doesn't scale and is very difficult.
>You have age verification laws, payment gateways that will stop processing if they get even a whiff that sex workers might be using your site to advertise, and bigots who will DDOS you
I don't believe you on the sex worker part -- I think I went on a few "dates" where folks were being polite because I didn't understand some of the language and phrasing used in their profiles. (Also sex worker is a broad term, and dancers camgirls etc want to find true love too.)
It can be hard, dating in a big city like SF. And I probably had a "garbage in, garbage out" experience with the site since I lied and said I was straight and some people filter "the straights" out.
The twenty aughts were incredibly homophobic, and if you're a 2 on the kinsey scale -- someone who only wants to hook up and not date the same sex -- it was a lot simpler to just not bring it up because a lot of people will drop ten twenty match points if you admit you've had sex with a man while fronting as progressive.
Finally, since some of the language and phrasing I see you using reminds me of internal Google mailing lists folks have given me a peek at, I'd like to say here, in public, that I went on a lot of dates in the Bay Area with extremely privileged people who don't seem to get that on a long enough timeline if you're scared shitless of my hacking skills on a date but doubt me in the interview room, that's going to be radicalizing... a persistent pattern of being told if I won't slam a baby into someone they won't accurately attest to my skills, a persistent pattern of being gatekept into precarity that did not make me feel like I had any allies or friends in the technology space and I was grateful SF had a thriving arts scene to keep me sane.
Anyways, the world is darker -- I got trolled at one point when I reactivated OKC. Like, legit "I'm not even sure if this is a real person" level troll, something I never used to encounter online dating. (Woman said she wants a man who loves her like she loves Bibi, splits her time between Israel, and... has no idea what the black flag movement is? Felt like I was being baited into going off on someone who might not really exist.)
>bigots who will DDOS you if you dare to cater to the needs of minorities.
I've had the sites hosting essays about my childhood DDoSed as I was shopping around a sequel -- there's a war going on out there to shape our media landscape that the normies don't see or sense.