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Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

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Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#71

Post by tamarind8 »

whiddershins wrote: post #34
tamarind8 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I did say was that I rarely use browser debuggers, because I've just never felt the need to. The console.log and a good mental image of what the code is doing has got me this far. I asked my boss, that as a senior dev with over 15 proven experience, he should not stress to much about HOW I do it, just WHAT I deliver, and WHEN it is delivered. I guess that was asking for to much? Or being insubordinate? Anyways,…

Honestly: are you a bit argumentative? If I was in the first few weeks of a job I would try to be receptive to what my coworkers suggest, not win any arguments.

Actually, I think I was a bit too accommodating.

I let a fellow dev fully set up my dev box twice. The second time I did tell him lets do this later, I really want to work on that first ticket but he just kept on typing, ignoring me. I shoudld have grabbed the keyboard from him the moment I realized he was deleting my current ubuntu WSL setup. Guess I just kept silent in the spirit of "being receptive to what my coworkers suggest". Little did I know that my boss would decide that this means i don't know anything.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#72

Post by bombolo »

tamarind8 wrote: post #11
not_your_vase wrote: post #6

If you are actually productive with your method, then I would advice you to be happy that you dodged a bullet, and it only cost you 3 weeks. Go for another company, and don't chase this one. If, however, they have a point, try to learn some productivity tools to be more efficient before going for the job. In any case, don't think too much about this company, it will just distract you.

What I did say was that I rarely use browser debuggers, because I've just never felt the need to. The console.log and a good mental image of what the code is doing has got me this far. I asked my boss, that as a senior dev with over 15 proven experience, he should not stress to much about HOW I do it, just WHAT I deliver, and WHEN it is delivered. I guess that was asking for to much? Or being insubordinate? Anyways,…

Some bosses want to control which fingers you use when typing.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#73

Post by tamarind8 »

whiddershins wrote: post #34
tamarind8 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I did say was that I rarely use browser debuggers, because I've just never felt the need to. The console.log and a good mental image of what the code is doing has got me this far. I asked my boss, that as a senior dev with over 15 proven experience, he should not stress to much about HOW I do it, just WHAT I deliver, and WHEN it is delivered. I guess that was asking for to much? Or being insubordinate? Anyways,…

Honestly: are you a bit argumentative? If I was in the first few weeks of a job I would try to be receptive to what my coworkers suggest, not win any arguments.

> Honestly: are you a bit argumentative?

Not at all. I pick my battles. Some things are worth fighting for, others can be ignored. Not all conflict is bad. Every manager reading this should google "form norm storm perform"

Any senior dev worth their salt should have, and be allowed to have a "storm". We all have our experience, and the paths we followed to get that experience. If a companty thinks your experience and path is useless to them, why would they hire you in the first place?

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#74

Post by Am4TIfIsER0ppos »

tamarind8 wrote: post #62
proto_lambda wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three weeks aren't a gap, that's just a little time to relax between jobs.

I had already relaxed between jobs before getting this one... ;) So it is more like a 3 month gap.

Easy to explain.

> Jobs at this time are hard to come by. The biggest employers in the industry have laid off hundreds of thousands. There is a lot of competition for every position.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#75

Post by tamarind8 »

blowski wrote: post #70
tamarind8 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I believe me and the manager were a really good fit. If the choice was to move away from angular. As a developer, I believe we have the same values. He just felt I would be "too stressed with whats coming down the line" whatever that means. If you hire someone because you think you are going for A, then change your mind about "what's coming down the line" and decide to stick with B, what is the proper w…

It's hard to say, as I have almost no context except for what you can give me. I highly doubt you'd get anywhere taking legal action against them. Also, are you posting here because you're frustrated and want to rant? That's OK, I do it too, but it's pointless me trying to offer advice if that's the case. Or perhaps you are looking for advice? HN isn't great for that, so email me if you want, it's on my profile.

> Also, are you posting here because you're frustrated and want to rant?

It is OK. I asked a question, and you gave your advice. And I am definitely not posting here because "you're frustrated and want to rant". I am posting here because I'm sure others have unfortunately found themselves in similar situations, and I'm looking for their input. Have you found yourself in a similar situation, either as the developer or manager? If the answer is no, then what is the point of you replying to me in this thread? If yes, then please, share.

> That's OK, I do it too, but it's pointless me trying to offer advice if that's the case.

And I'd email you, but you have already stated that you feel I have no case, so what's the point?

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#76

Post by tamarind8 »

TylerE wrote: post #45
tamarind8 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I did say was that I rarely use browser debuggers, because I've just never felt the need to. The console.log and a good mental image of what the code is doing has got me this far. I asked my boss, that as a senior dev with over 15 proven experience, he should not stress to much about HOW I do it, just WHAT I deliver, and WHEN it is delivered. I guess that was asking for to much? Or being insubordinate? Anyways,…

Console.log and a prayer isn’t exactly the kind of thing I’d like to hear from a dev I’d just hired, tbh.

And is that a front end dev? So please tell me exactly, HOW you want your senior front end devs to solve the problems you assign to them. Lets forget about the WHEN and WHAT for now. Just let us know the HOW. Specifically, I mean the IDES or editors you expect them to use, the browsers you want them to test in, the static analysis tools you expect them to use, to unit testing libraries you want them to use, the e2e tools you want them to use, the plugins you expect them to install into there IDEs or editors, the OS they must use, what tools and apps they must use, what must be open in screen one, and what must be open in screen two, what keyboard shortcuts they must use, what snytax highlighting themes they should use dark or light, ... etc

Please, let me know how you micro-manage your senior devs.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#77

Post by batoure »

You say “preferred” alot in your post.

Did a leader in your organization ask you to switch tooling and you declined?

I work in an organization where we cut deployment bugs in angular by a shocking 40% by consolidating our teams tooling into a consistent set of standards. If a developer started with us who after hearing this wouldnt agree to conform to those standards we would terminate them as quickly as possible.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#78

Post by jillesvangurp »

Well, that's your interpretation of what they told you. Reading between the lines there might have been a bit more going on.

They told you you don't know how to use your tools. In other words that you were not being professional. Not that you are not allowed to use other tools. There's a subtle difference. You might think you know best (can't judge that) but your failure is actually convincing others of those amazing abilities and skills you have.

The fact that you are on HN complaining about this, tells me a lot. It's a bit immature behavior and you are burning a few bridges like that. That combined with a few things that maybe didn't go that well in your work in the first weeks would be a gigantic red flag for a manager.

I would recommend not doing acting out in public like this. It's unprofessional. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong. Nobody cares. This is probably a good learning moment for you as well. Somebody didn't see things your way and chose to let you go rather than work with you some more. You might want to reflect on what you could have done differently here.

Anyway, you wouldn't be the first opinionated junior developer that gets a reality check this way. They hired you to do a job and you managed to get yourself fired in 3 weeks. Not a good look. You should thank them for not wasting your time more than that and avoid a repeat of that with whatever you do next.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#79

Post by blowski »

To me, it's clear this was not "because you used Firefox", albeit that was the written pretext given by the company. It's also not because they changed their mind about the React rewrite. It's far more likely they thought you were going to be a bad culture fit.

I could be wrong, as I have very limited context, so here's my justification for making that claim. You're giving a very one-sided view in the intro, and then other important details crop up below. You didn't know Angular, for example, but the company was willing to give you the time to learn it. You sounded hostile about being asked to work more in the office. Reading between the lines, it seems you were also critical about what work you were given. I'm sure you were trying to help, and you were just being honest. But that kind of feedback costs you capital that you didn't have, since you were so new and lacking in experience where they needed it.

As a manager, I can imagine thinking that you don't have much expertise in our tech stack, and you're not the most easy-going of people to work with. You mentioned that you thought you were a good fit given their technical goals. But tech skills are a small part of "fit".

I think the manager made a decision that they thought was the best for both of you, and they were probably right.

And it seems like you need to learn from that, rather than come here looking for validation that none of this was your fault.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#80

Post by blowski »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #78

Well, that's your interpretation of what they told you. Reading between the lines there might have been a bit more going on. They told you you don't know how to use your tools. In other words that you were not being professional. Not that you are not allowed to use other tools. There's a subtle difference. You might think you know best (can't judge that) but your failure is actually convincing others of those amazing…

> Junior programmer's bookshelf: 90% APIs and programming languages; Senior programmer's bookshelf: 80% applied psychology.

https://twitter.com/jbrains/status/616228270841962496

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