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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#661

Post by tsukikage »

treis wrote: post #256
cweagans wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be surprised to know that one can do meal prep and pay attention to sprint refinement at the same time. For me, having something to do with my hands while talking helps to keep me focused.

You're supposed to be actively participating in refinement. Reading the story being talked about, looking up documentation, checking on potential solutions, and other things of that nature. You can't do that with raw chicken on your hands or while walking to the fridge to get veggies. The fact that this has to be explained to people is why there's a push to return to the office.

> Reading the story being talked about, looking up documentation

That seems odd to me. I can give my full attention to something I am reading, or to listening to what a person is saying in the meeting, but not both at the same time. If I start looking up documentation, I'm going to miss what is being said.

Can... can most people split their attention this way? Am I weird?

I can do a completely mindless manual task while listening to someone speaking (though I struggle to do something manual while reading) - but this doesn't seem to be what is expected here.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#662

Post by [deleted] »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #574
Gigachad wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are dismantling every place people form new friendships and then wonder why young people are becoming more lonely.

No, we're really not. People still live together, people still go to school together, people still have interests out of work, people still go to bars and clubs. The office may have been a good place to make friends for some young people, but certainly not all. I was quite lonely in my early twenties. I had moved away from home and university and all the people I knew. It's quite normal. And nobody worked remotely.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#663

Post by mattgreenrocks »

mustini wrote: post #572
givemeethekeys wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Making friends as an adult is hard. Pick a social hobby. Pick up sports, hiking / running / reading / trivia / sports groups. Take a class. Take up a cause - volunteer your time at the local farm, shelter, political office.. Kids don't go to school with the goal of making friends. The friends are a byproduct.

This is very easy advice to give and oft repeated, but I’m deeply skeptical that this is something that works for most people (unless we substitute friends with acquaintances).

Worked fine for me. Made new friend groups at a local club, and two churches. I keep up with most everyone who was more than acquaintance still.

You have to get out there. The Internet is not a great place to form solid human relationships.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#664

Post by thebigfilter »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #127
mostlysimilar wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can find very committed senior talent in latam for 120-160k, the US equivalent would be 180-250k, and the latam folks are less likely to job hop or negotiate a higher comp in month 12 Disagree. Quality engineers will ask for their worth regardless of location. Also I think indexing on "less likely to job hop or negotiate salary" is short-sighted thinking. You're asking people to do a complex job where the key s…

Employees in the bay and NYC have more opportunities and thus more negotiating leverage. It doesn’t mean they’re better at the work. Hiring in competitive locales does mean more brain space dedicated to “how do I retain this employee” and less brain space dedicated to “how can I make my customers happy and grow my business” which is a losing trade. The winning play is pay top of market rates to labor in low cost loca…

It’s a very effective playbook, but it’s taking the easy path. More interesting and challenging is building a high perf company that has a better relationship with it’s labor. A cutthroat model will always work, but I think humans are intelligent enough to build high performing groups that succeed while taking care of others. Even the mafia took care of family, in their own perverse way (If you off Tony for talking to the cops, you still take care of his wife and kids).

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#665

Post by projectazorian »

watwut wrote: post #653
projectazorian wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your username is “gigachad” and you never considered the option of going to a gym on weekdays? Not going to say I have made lifetime friends at the gym but I have nice conversations with other regulars fairly often, it’s a good serotonin top-up. Even works for finding romantic partners as well if you’re not creepy about it, in fact two regulars at my gym just got married. There’s always the bar as well but of course…

To be fair, gym is fairly individual activity here. You will be seen as annoying if you try to interact with others.

That’s why I do classes, there’s usually way more social interaction, not to mention access to coaching (which I strongly believe many solo lifters would benefit from)

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#666

Post by kyawzazaw »

dag11 wrote: post #409
cal85 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> frankly that feels like a you problem It's also a me problem, so there's at least two of us.

Me three. I happen to have a strong friend group, but being single and living alone, the first few months of the pandemic were miserable from a solitary confinement standpoint. Even in recent years if I have to WFH for any reason, it's just the worst thing. Plus I'm just not productive when I'm working home alone. I'm extremely thankful that my company is mostly comprised of people who prefer and thrive working in ou…

Isn't the pandemic the issue here though?

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#667

Post by sys_64738 »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

Your priorities are all wrong if you live to work. You need to make a life unconnected to work as you might be fired any day. People I work with are coworkers, nothing more.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#668

Post by jltsiren »

Volundr wrote: post #647
jltsiren wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The friends you meet at work are no different from the friends you meet at dance/martial arts class. They are tied to an activity, and if you quit the activity, you are likely to lose most of them. The core problem is that remote work can easily mean 8 hours/day of social isolation. Especially because those are the hours people have the most energy to try new things. If people spend that time avoiding social contacts…

There is no default. There never was. This is exactly the idea I am saying we need to combat. Building lasting relationships takes time and reciprocated effort. The people who want to WFH aren't going to become "friend candidates" because they are forced into the office. The are either already "friend candidates" prepared to reciprocate advances, or they aren't interested. Remote isn't the barrier here. Physical prox…

Defaults matter, because people take the easy default choice most of the time. If people don't meet other people by default, they will have fewer casual acquaintances and they are less likely to meet the ones who will become good friends. Then there will be fewer friends overall.

> Once someone realizes this and learns to put effort into their social connections, they are far less likely to end up isolated than just hoping showing up at work will make the difference.

This is fundamentally the "communism would work, if" argument. Individual people can choose to make the non-default choice. People on the average don't do that.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#669

Post by dymk »

nprateem wrote: post #292
dymk wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, why do you think it’s reasonable that be a requirement to be productive?

Because it helps people bond and so work better as a team. Plus probably not all your colleagues are complete introverts and may actually enjoy the company of others.

I enjoy the company of others, but I can't say I much care for being forced to interact in-person with specific people. It's not that I dislike my coworkers, it's just that there's better ways to spend my time than in an office.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#670

Post by giantg2 »

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #616
giantg2 wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think you focusing on delivery and cycle time is kind of emblematic of my point; none of that matters if you ship the wrong thing, and don’t correct over time, but to you that’s where the conversation ends." Lol don't tell me what I think. Those are the metrics that our management uses. That's their focus, and are pervasive in the industry. Sure, you can talk about shipping the wrong thing. What's the metric calle…

If you don’t know why or how your management figures out what to build or if what you’re building is what they need, and don’t see how that’s related to remote work, there’s not much I can do to help you.

What are you even going on about? Discussing what to build isn't what we are talking about here. Mor to mention, my management doesn't talk about that. The business side does. And this topic is covered via meeting. Whether those meeting are remote or not do not matter. Now please stop trolling this topic.
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