Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 70 posts

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#61

Post by cageface »

bugsy wrote: post #60
cageface wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading in the graph and putting it in a tree structure is a reasonable problem, but not a 10 minute interview one. Traversing the graph to find the optimal path? Wow, that's known to be a tricky problem. This question wouldn't be appropriate for an interview, but I think it's just right for a pre-screen. It's not hard if you realize they're not asking for the optimal path , just the biggest total. It's not my questi…

The biggest total requires the optimal path for the stated constraints, those being the path must yield that biggest total. They aren't asking for a good enough path, but for the best possible path, the one that gives the biggest total. That's the optimal path for this problem. Probably a brute force search is the way to go, I certainly can't think of any way to thin this problem out without doing research, especiall…

I had this one solved already, but thanks. See, think about it for 10 minutes and it's not hard.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#62

Post by bugsy »

cageface wrote: post #61
bugsy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest total requires the optimal path for the stated constraints, those being the path must yield that biggest total. They aren't asking for a good enough path, but for the best possible path, the one that gives the biggest total. That's the optimal path for this problem. Probably a brute force search is the way to go, I certainly can't think of any way to thin this problem out without doing research, especiall…

I had this one solved already, but thanks. See, think about it for 10 minutes and it's not hard.

I don't agree with that at all. Thinking for 10 minutes is not sufficient. There's two insights and neither are obvious until you get them. Assuming candidates will get them is like assuming quick sort will occur to them if they've never seen it before.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#63

Post by cageface »

bugsy wrote: post #62
cageface wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had this one solved already, but thanks. See, think about it for 10 minutes and it's not hard.

I don't agree with that at all. Thinking for 10 minutes is not sufficient. There's two insights and neither are obvious until you get them. Assuming candidates will get them is like assuming quick sort will occur to them if they've never seen it before.

The minute you actually sat down and thought about it you got it, as did I, as would any of the better programmers I've worked with in my career. Walk halfway into an algorithm and it's clear. I wouldn't expect the average code schlepper to get this but that's the entire point. This ad suggests to me that's not what they're after.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#64

Post by gyepi »

cageface wrote: post #21
lzw wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things I learned nearly 20 years ago is that it sucks to work in shops where the engineers are arrogant, because the more arrogant the less likely any good engineering is tolerated. These kinds of puzzles communicate arrogance to me. They say "We're more interested in excluding you based on a trick question than in getting to know you".

I guess it depends on the question. If it requires previous knowledge of some kind of gimmick then I agree it's a turnoff. A good puzzle that challenges your thinking and tests some basic algorithmic chops is a good sign though, I think. For example, the puzzle in this ad is a good one: http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sof/1927765905.html

This puzzle has a couple of problems: The problem description claims there are 100 rows, but the data only has 99 rows. The example solution shows an "isosceles" triangle, but the data set represents a "right" triangle and the given example solution is impossible with a right triangle (because the left border is a constraint). In order to properly solve the puzzle, one much make assumptions that may turn out to be untrue.

Resolving such ambiguities and unspecified detail is something we deal with every day; however, it's less than helpful so early in the process. As others have mentioned, hiring is a two way street.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#65

Post by bugsy »

gyepi wrote: post #64
cageface wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on the question. If it requires previous knowledge of some kind of gimmick then I agree it's a turnoff. A good puzzle that challenges your thinking and tests some basic algorithmic chops is a good sign though, I think. For example, the puzzle in this ad is a good one: http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sof/1927765905.html

This puzzle has a couple of problems: The problem description claims there are 100 rows, but the data only has 99 rows. The example solution shows an "isosceles" triangle, but the data set represents a "right" triangle and the given example solution is impossible with a right triangle (because the left border is a constraint). In order to properly solve the puzzle, one much make assumptions that may turn out to be un…

It's actually completely specified. Note that I don't think it's a great test at this position in the hiring process, but it is completely specified and solvable.

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#66

Post by bugsy »

cageface wrote: post #63
bugsy wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with that at all. Thinking for 10 minutes is not sufficient. There's two insights and neither are obvious until you get them. Assuming candidates will get them is like assuming quick sort will occur to them if they've never seen it before.

The minute you actually sat down and thought about it you got it, as did I, as would any of the better programmers I've worked with in my career. Walk halfway into an algorithm and it's clear. I wouldn't expect the average code schlepper to get this but that's the entire point. This ad suggests to me that's not what they're after.

Ended up being 5 lines of code in C.

(Cue: reactions from others that it's a one liner in Haskell, or that it's obviously simple and easy since the solution was so short.)

(The five lines didn't include the data, but a sixth very long line takes care of that if really felt to be part of the count.)

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#67

Post by wariola »

dotBen wrote: post #13

Random thoughts from when I write job reqs: Make sure there is a clear description of the job itself and what the challenges the company and the role itself are trying to solve ("Looking for Ruby on Rails devs, call us!" doesn't explain what problems you'll be solving, etc). GOOD developers don't look for a new job using X, Y and Z languages, they look for a new job tackling problems A, B, and C. Don't include requir…

Good developers want to mature and evolve a process that is the right fit for the business and not the SOUP of the day. I just read a good paper about software development management and how process must fit the business objectives.

http://www.parasoft.com/jsp/products/article.jsp?articleId=3...

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#68

Post by blasdel »

cageface wrote: post #31
blasdel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bonus question requiring previous knowledge can be fantastic as a shibboleth if crafted well — it reinforces to the potential applicant that there is a clever compatriot on the other side, and makes the job of screening resumes easier.

What would be an example of this?

This brilliant job ad with bonus shibboleth was linked in #startups months ago: http://bnjmnhggns.org/jobs.html

Re: Ask HN: What makes a job posting attractive?

#69

Post by benrmatthews »

* Set a challenge. What do you want that employee to achieve in the time that they're with you?

* Lay out the opportunity. How can they develop and what will the rewards of success be?

* Tell a story. How can a potential employee find out about the role and the company culture in an engaging way?

We included all three of the above when we wrote a recent job posting for a managerial position, "Searching for a Superhero": http://brightone.org.uk/searching-for-a-superhero/

Post reply on HN