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Ask HN: Am I getting old, or is working with AI juniors becoming a nightmare?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I getting old, or is working with AI juniors becoming a nightmare?

#51
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve had a looming crisis for decades of young people increasingly not understanding a lot of the fundamentals of mathematical logic. And I think treating LLMs (which are amazing tools) as “AI,” and having it play this type of role, is the final step towards a lot of unrecoverable self-destruction. We need to remember that the core of what “logic” is can be understood by every human mind, and that it’s our individua…

Do most young people need to understanding the fundamentals of mathematical logic? We seem to get by without that. Even at the presidential level, today: >RFK Jr claims basic math rules don’t apply to White House https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/rfk-jr-math-percentage...

Yes, and the country is destroying itself because those in power lack basic reasoning skills.

Re: Ask HN: Am I getting old, or is working with AI juniors becoming a nightmare?

#53
I don't think many people expected things to change this rapidly even just a year ago. will we be able to completely keep 'spaghetti legacy code' under control? Or will the sheer drop in the 'cost of code' actually make maintenance even more of a nightmare? I'm not entirely sure, but one thing is certain that we are definitely at an inflection point right now.

Re: Ask HN: Am I getting old, or is working with AI juniors becoming a nightmare?

#54

Reviewing code becomes more arduous. Not only are the pull requests more bloated, the developer who pushed them doesn't always understand the implications of their changes. It's harder to maintain and track down bugs. I spend way too much time explaining AI generated code to the developer who "wrote" it.

Personally if I see a PR that's not readable, I send it back immediately without much of a read-through. AI or not, the code should be readable or it's not maintainable by people or AI

Re: Ask HN: Am I getting old, or is working with AI juniors becoming a nightmare?

#56

There seems to be a disconnect, with some people claiming they don't write code any more, only specs, and me trying to get Copilot to fix a stupid sizing bug in our layout engine and it Not Getting It. Is this because the guys claiming success are working in popular, known, more limited areas like Javascript in web pages, and the people outside those, with more complex systems, don't get the same results ? I also not…

I'm one of those don't-code-anymore guys, but I'm not trying to promote it as "the way", it just happens to be the tool that works best for me.

I'm not sure what the difference is between your situation and mine. Many vibers try to say you're not doing it right, but I think people forget what an incredible diversity of use-cases are out there, and how many are bound to fall outside the norm. The "blame the user" attitude is irksome IMO.

I do a lot of greenfield coding. AI is easier to use in that situation - code bases are smaller and you can orient the project from the ground up. So that could be a difference.

When I take over an existing project, I have a bootstrap phase to get it working well with AI. I have the AI write a lot of documentation, and at the end of every coding session I have it update the documentation based on the code diff. When using AI to code, documentation is code to the AI, so it's important to keep it up to date, but thankfully AI can take care of that.

In the case of a bug that takes repeated attempts to get right like the sizing bug you describe, I stop and assess - ask the AI to describe the algorithm, point out that it's error prone and ask why, ask it to come up with ideas for simplifying the code. AI is amazing at insights, not so much at decision making, so I try to have it summarize and feed me information and direct it from there.

Also, feedback loops are incredibly important - the ability for the AI to self-test its work is paramount. Without that it just stabs at hard problems randomly hoping that the fix works. Nearly every difficult AI-can't-do-this problem I've worked through has involved setting up a mechanism for it to self-test.

Sometimes I do have to crack open the code to look at it, but that's increasingly rare. I can't remember the last time, TBH.

I gave up using VSC and copilot long ago, FWIW. Claude code on the command line in a sandbox and let it rip. I don't think it's possible to get the same level of automation in the VSC environment.

Dunno if this is helpful at all, and I'm not pushing you to use AI. I'll just say that that my experience with it is amazing and it's an incredible time saver. Keeps me focused on product level issues rather than micro-managing code issues.

(And, to be clear, I have no AI tools that I try to promote. Just a contractor doing work for other people.)

Re: Ask HN: Am I getting old, or is working with AI juniors becoming a nightmare?

#57

Many here will be sad but there will be a day when writing code is seen as as antiquated as using a slide rule. It is coming.

I know how to use a slide rule, but only because my grandpa taught me. He was an electrical engineer with serious mastery of analogue circuits and relays, and a passion to explain; but he never really grasped what my father was doing as digital chip engineer + programmer... My father gave me a great start on Unix, C & Perl. And I haven't managed to teach my children nearly as much code as I hoped (some Scratch/Snap! and python lists but not dicts yet), and they're already beginning to "but what for, AI..."

P.S. I'm reminded of the short story "My Father's Singularity" (https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/cooper_06_10/) wrt. the gradual way change accumulates until a significant gap has grown.

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