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Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

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Re: Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

#51

Post by anyfactor »

tjmc wrote: post #29
anyfactor wrote: post #14

I am really interested in the concept of elder/senior citizen technology. The basic design concept for them is answering "what am I looking at?" I created this tool ( https://anftr.com/ ) for some of my ex-colleagues in their early 50s who were trying to navigate the world of office software. They were struggling with Microsoft Word and Excel, and I have seen them yell at ChatGPT and bash their mouses constantly, hop…

54yo here. We (GenX) grew up with computers. It’s the Boomers and Silent Generation that have trouble.

I have worked with people in their mid 30s who had an utter disgust for computers. I was “the guy who knew about computers but was more approachable than the IT guy” at a large office. Even though some people hate doing this kind of work, I always enjoyed it. Sometimes, people would hang around my desk first thing in the morning to get help with IT issues.

I made contacts with the executive team when I had to sign them up for their ChatGPT accounts and set up their VPNs (which often just involved pressing a button). They saw a YouTube ad about how a VPN kept them safe, and they paid for a year in advance...

People of all ages can have a hard time dealing with technology. And to be honest, the IT ecosystem has become adversarial. About a decade ago, installing antivirus software would eliminate many risk factors. But these days, with sponsored content and advertisements, there are so many ways people can mess up their systems.

Re: Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

#52

Post by anyfactor »

Balooga wrote: post #40
anyfactor wrote: post #14

I am really interested in the concept of elder/senior citizen technology. The basic design concept for them is answering "what am I looking at?" I created this tool ( https://anftr.com/ ) for some of my ex-colleagues in their early 50s who were trying to navigate the world of office software. They were struggling with Microsoft Word and Excel, and I have seen them yell at ChatGPT and bash their mouses constantly, hop…

> It might be borderline exploitative, but I have noticed that elderly individuals want a "solution" rather than a lesson. Or they may have just aged out of fucks[1] [1] - https://www.blog.lifebranches.com/p/aging-out-of-fucks-the-n...

In another comment, I mentioned that I was “the guy who knew about computers but was more approachable than the IT guy.” Even the rudest people tended to soften their tone when talking to me. I think when it comes to IT, most people’s default reaction is frustration. Trying to turn that frustration into a lesson can be frustrating at any age.

My approach was always: let me fix it first, then hand over the solution. It’s entirely up to you whether you want to follow up with “how did you fix it?” In my experience, 9 out of 10 people didn’t ask. The 1 out of 10 who did were often just making small talk.

The conversation was usually about how they ended up in that situation and what they wanted to achieve. I fixed they talked mostly to vent. That is part of the process.

In software engineering and professional culture, we often ask, “What have you tried so far?” That can be frustrating. The person you’re helping isn’t someone you have authority over—you either help them or you don’t. This cuts both ways, as they do not have authority on you to have you help them.

My thesis always has been people are generally polite. It’s not about manipulation or being overly conscious of achieving a goal. Impolite people usually are struggling with something internally, so you should pity them.

Re: Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

#53

Post by sminchev »

I know it is not fully in the scope, but I will describe my case, and I hope that this will give you some ideas and hits. I am working on an application that monitors elderly people in non-intrusive way. Their children install the application on their device and they do nothing with it. It follows the 'install and forget' principle. Don't bother them for anything. No notifications, no need to open it. If opening is needed, it is because they are curious, not because it is needed. All the information/notifications goes to their children. You can think in that direction. Can you make it a desktop application? In that case, you don't need authentication. It is actually simpler for them, because, instead of opening the browser, typing the URL, they just double click the icon. You can make a update mechanism that silently adds new features and bug fixes.

Some control can be added automatically from a server, so that they don't need to do anything.

The main problem here is, when they search for attention. I understand them and being respectful and giving them attention is a good thing, but from software support point of view, this is hard to be minimized.

Re: Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

#54

Post by flomo »

protocolture wrote: post #27

When I did phone support for the fruit company there was a woman who would come back to me time and again with roughly the same issue. She had some form of extreme palsy, and her kids lived on a different continent. What she needed, was someone to talk to her as she tried to input her password the 10 or so times it would take her to get it entered correctly. If she did it herself, she would become unsure that she was…

Reminds me when I had the high-end 2016 fruittruck with the sticky keyboard. All sorts of bizarre shit happens when you can't type your password.

Re: Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

#55

Post by flomo »

al_borland wrote: post #41
aarreedd wrote: post #2

Facebook must have optimized for this. Do whatever they do. And make it so they don't have to log back in frequently.

I think the key for Facebook (and Amazon) are your 2nd point. People login once, and likely never again. I got my mom, who is in her 70s, a new TV and wanted to sign her into Prime Video. I asked for her Amazon account and she had no idea. I think she said something like, “I don’t have an Amazon account, I never have to login. I don’t even know what it would be.” She has been a Prime member for a decade and hasn’t ha…

> Apple Keychain has saved the day with my mom several times.

iOS fills out these forms, puts the random password in icloud keychain, and then auths with faceid or etc. Obviously doesn't help OS's saas. But tons better than using Buster123 on every website.

Re: Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

#56

Post by al_borland »

flomo wrote: post #55
al_borland wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key for Facebook (and Amazon) are your 2nd point. People login once, and likely never again. I got my mom, who is in her 70s, a new TV and wanted to sign her into Prime Video. I asked for her Amazon account and she had no idea. I think she said something like, “I don’t have an Amazon account, I never have to login. I don’t even know what it would be.” She has been a Prime member for a decade and hasn’t ha…

> Apple Keychain has saved the day with my mom several times. iOS fills out these forms, puts the random password in icloud keychain, and then auths with faceid or etc. Obviously doesn't help OS's saas. But tons better than using Buster123 on every website.

I’m hoping with the advent of Apple Passwords that some of this password saving magic happens for more of her websites as well. Of course she has a tendency to turn off most of these helpful things after getting scared by videos on Facebook.

Re: Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

#57

Post by Gigachad »

goosejuice wrote: post #50
Gigachad wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sync situation is a bit of a mess but it's getting better. Personally I use 1password and everything is synced everywhere effortlessly. But if you are a windows user without a password manager then you are probably best off just using your phone and the QR code scan flow. The UX issues of Passkeys can and are being fixed. The issues with passwords are unfixable.

> The UX issues of Passkeys can and are being fixed. I don't see any solutions to the recovery problem that doesn't introduce another login mechanism. But as a primary method the UX is pretty good for the technically literate.

It should be relatively hard to get locked out. Keys are synced to all of your devices so you'd have to lose everything at once.

Re: Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

#58

Post by y-curious »

aarreedd wrote: post #2

Facebook must have optimized for this. Do whatever they do. And make it so they don't have to log back in frequently.

While on that note, same thing with Nextdoor. You do see a lot of older folks accidentally posting stuff there, though, and it’s a good lesson for what not to do also

Re: Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

#59

Post by uyzstvqs »

Simplest auth UX that's reasonably secure: Enter email, send link to email, click link.

Or you can use a phone number, call them, have them enter a numeric code. Just keep in mind that two people may use the same landline.

Or, tell them to write the password down and keep it somewhere safe. That usually works.

Re: Ask HN: Easiest UX for Seniors

#60

Post by butz »

Make no changes to UI. That's probably the main concern for seniors. In addition to usual accessibility requirements, but those should be implemented by default for everyone.
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