I always ask them to give me their phone for a few minutes so I can check their messaging history, invariably they refuse. Just ask them why.
This always works best yes, up until a person doesn't mind and you get to see things you rather not.
Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?
51–60 of 87 posts
Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?
#52I myself didn’t care what information was collected about me. I liked the idea of having a smart digital assistant that knew more about me so I was fine offering up my info.
Then I realized that companies tracking me might financially cost me. Maybe it doesn’t happen now, but if an airline knows I really need to get to my mother across the world because they know there’s been a family death, they can charge me more? That thought made it click why I care about privacy.
Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?
#53Lots of good responses here so I will add a tangent. I have often wondered what it would be like if we had total openness and everything everyone did and said was recorded and available to everyone. Would it be a nightmare or not?
Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?
#54Well first remind them of the difference between secrecy and privacy: "Hide? We all know what is done in the bathroom, yet we still close the door." Then you might point out that it is not about them, but the worst of everyone else, globally. Worst in business ethics, willingness to influence, extent of tracking, or criminality to steal a pw database - it matters little as there's someone covering all of those option…
The difference between secrecy and privacy is the key here. Emphasize that. People think they have nothing to hide (implying secrecy or guilt), but they'll admit that there are things they want to keep to themselves.
There was a speaker on stage (sorry I forget the source) that asked an audience member up. The speaker asked the individual to read aloud her credit card number to the rest of the audience. She refused. He took it a step further -- he asked her to remove her clothes on stage. Again, she refused. Was she hiding something? Was she wielding a dangerous weapon under her clothes? Or was she reacting like most people presumably would by refusing to undress?
Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?
#55I’ve been playing with this analogy for years and used it a few times but I don’t know how effective it is.
Imagine you’re having a party with friends. Just a regular party.
Now imagine a uniformed policeman says “I’m just going to attend your party hold this tape recorder. Don’t worry about me. You won’t have to interact with me. I’ll just hang out and sit there. You aren’t in trouble at all. I’m doing it in everyone’s house.”
Would your behavior change? Would you be slightly nervous? Will people truly let their guard down?
That’s exactly what surveillance is. Except we don’t see that cop in the room so it’s hard for us to imagine.
Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?
#56Have them read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_security Relate to them how how little bits of data on Facebook is exactly the same exploitation vector for scams that enemies use in warfare (no exaggeration, it is literally the same).
Look at the page you are linking to though; it starts off with twentieth century propaganda posters — and just read that first paragraph!
Their response will be that they are not a target for such scams. They'll say they don't have any enemies. That they only share their holiday pictures after they get back (so criminals won't know that they are away, they're not stupid). OpSec? They'll kindly let you know that it doesn't apply to them.
And besides, admitting that leaving your private data all over the place means you'll be tracked, manipulated, monetized, and cloistered from anything outside of your comfortable bubble, would also mean accepting that the vast majority of society got it wrong.
Try overcoming that cognitive barrier.
Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?
#57A more aggressive example that seems to get the idea through to people: > Would you be OK with the police installing a camera in your house? Don't worry, they'll only look at it if they think you've done something wrong, you can trust them on that. Totally. You've got nothing to hide, right? I think non-tech people don't quite realise what sort of footprint they leave online, whereas the idea of a camera being in you…
I have found that many people are not really too concerned about it. There is a home security company here that sells an alarm system and one of the indoor movement sensor units has a built in camera. No you do not have any access to the camera. No, there is no indication that it is active. No, you can not opt out. No, you can not see any source (I asked). "But it will only ever be used when there is an alarm to veri…
This feels maybe a little bit more reasonable because you installed the camera yourself and have contracted a company to monitor it. You can opt out by cancelling the contract.
In my example, the user has no choice, just as you frequently have no choice but to allow your web traffic or activity be monitored.
Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?
#58I tell them about this study I've read a few years ago: "it's possible accurately to predict divorces 18 months ahead using credit cards history". Then, I explain to them how much do fb/google/verizon knows about them. This is usually enough to get them to understand why privacy is so important.
Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?
#59I myself didn’t care what information was collected about me. I liked the idea of having a smart digital assistant that knew more about me so I was fine offering up my info. Then I realized that companies tracking me might financially cost me. Maybe it doesn’t happen now, but if an airline knows I really need to get to my mother across the world because they know there’s been a family death, they can charge me more?…
This airline example has helped me convince many people that online privacy matters.
Re: Ask HN: What's a good response to “It's fine, I've got nothing to hide online”?
#60Would they like FB, Google, eBay, Apple et al to know which banks they hold accounts with, how often they access them, from PCs and from their phones? Or what religion you may follow? Or your other personal preferences?
Would they like such organisations to put together a profile of what they think the person is like, based on the web sites they use, when they use them, what they buy from them and more? And then for those profiles to be used by credit rating organisations, or by employers during recruitment processes, or by customs officials when entering a country?
All of the above without your explicit permission, perhaps because someone you know has thought it was ok, and with no verification that their assessment of you is correct?