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Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

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Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#41

Post by a-priori »

artmageddon wrote: post #38

This is strictly anecdotal evidence, but I'll throw in my 2 cents here. I have a private pilot certificate and am working toward an instrument rating right now, which involves being in continuous contact with air traffic control, flying in low / zero visibility conditions, and relying on aircraft instruments to guide me on landings. On numerous(if not all), I've had my iPhone with me, switched on and even in my lap a…

We can all agree that a four-seater Cessna and 767 are very different, but for nav/comm they all use the same instrument systems.

Unlike a Cessna, a 767 has a fly-by-wire system supported by a data bus (e.g. ARINC-429) running the length of the aircraft, often close to the passenger cabin. Presumably, GSM/CDMA signals could interfere with this.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#42

Post by notahacker »

cryptoz wrote: post #22
hcho wrote: post #5

Leave your phone near a CRT screen or loudspeaker, observe the noise right before you recieve a call. The rest is statistics and probability. What's the probability of interference causing a fatal misreading in aircraft's sensor? Too small. What's the number of flights world wide? Too big. We would see a number of accidents if everyone kept their phones on all the time. As a death is one too many, it warrants the ban…

I disagree. The airlines claim the risk of death from my water bottle is too high to allow me to bring the water on the plane. Fine. However, I'm allowed to bring 100 cellphones in a backpack. They don't care about that, except to politely ask me to turn them off. If there was a remote chance of a cellphone causing a crash - more chance than a bottle with water in it - then they would ban cellphones in flight. It's v…

Liquids are banned because there were rumours of terrorist plots involving liquid explosives and it was important that something was seen to be done about it.

Carrying 100 mobile phones in a switched on state that have a small probability of interfering with navigation and communication systems would be a ludicrously impractical way of attempting an attack, so airline regulators funnily enough haven't accounted for that possibility.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#43

Post by xyzzyz »

Do the cellphones even work in airplanes? I mean, they are pretty far from antennas, even over civilized area. They also move quite fast, although I do not really know how much Doppler effect affects the phones' transmitters and receivers. The plane is also a Faraday cage, thus it may greatly reduce signal.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#44

Post by WillyF »

run4yourlives wrote: post #33
bobds wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe that my tiny MP3 player could be dangerous to the plane's avionics, yet I'm usually told I have to turn it off before takeoff.

That is because they want you to have all your senses (especially hearing so they can give you instructions) during take-off and landing; the most dangerous parts of any flight. It has nothing to do with the MP3 players themselves.

What about the "radio" stations you can listen to if you plug in to the headrest. I never listen, but do they stop at takeoff and landing? I can't remember if jetBlue turns off your tv during takeoff and landing. I know they turn it off for safetey announcements.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#45

Post by DrJokepu »

mgod wrote: post #23

Please, please let's let the airlines keep this rule no matter how little it has to do with safety. If you get an honest answer from a pilot, they'll tell you this was never covered in any flight school, and they usually leave their phone on, but can you imagine a flight where that business guy who just doesn't get it spends the whole time on flight talking on the phone?

Consider this: you're on an eight hours long flight and you need to make a really urgent call. There are no technical reasons why you wouldn't be able to do so, but it is forbidden because some people would abuse it and wouldn't be considerate to other passangers. It's not the phone that should be banned, it's being an inconsiderate prick that should be disallowed.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#46

Post by artmageddon »

a-priori wrote: post #41
artmageddon wrote: post #38

This is strictly anecdotal evidence, but I'll throw in my 2 cents here. I have a private pilot certificate and am working toward an instrument rating right now, which involves being in continuous contact with air traffic control, flying in low / zero visibility conditions, and relying on aircraft instruments to guide me on landings. On numerous(if not all), I've had my iPhone with me, switched on and even in my lap a…

We can all agree that a four-seater Cessna and 767 are very different, but for nav/comm they all use the same instrument systems. Unlike a Cessna, a 767 has a fly-by-wire system supported by a data bus (e.g. ARINC-429) running the length of the aircraft, often close to the passenger cabin. Presumably, GSM/CDMA signals could interfere with this.

I'll admit that I wasn't aware of this, but on the same token, would that portion of the electronics not be shielded as well?

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#47

Post by _b8r0 »

Two things:

1. Using a mobile phone isn't generally dangerous providing everything else on the plane works fine and nothing would be interfered with if it wasn't.

2. Cell handovers at 30,000ft with an air speed around 500mph are really, really hard.

The reasons for turning your phone off during takeoff and landing are wide and varied, but the long and short of it is that it effectively counts as security theatre. Take off and landing are the two most dangerous bits of any flight. If anything goes wrong they do not want people tweeting "OMG IM GOING TO DIE!!!!", they want them focused on bracing for impact. That's not the only reason (or necessarily a major one) but you get the idea.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#48

Post by rmc »

spokey wrote: post #2

If they were really dangerous, I suspect they wouldn't let you have them in the cabin at all. "Everyone turn off your phone" isn't the level of safety compliance major airlines typically rely on.

They take bottles of water or cans of coke off you because you might be able to crash a plane with one. They don't take your mobile phone off you, ergo they can't be that dangerous.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#49

Post by WillyF »

hcho wrote: post #5

Leave your phone near a CRT screen or loudspeaker, observe the noise right before you recieve a call. The rest is statistics and probability. What's the probability of interference causing a fatal misreading in aircraft's sensor? Too small. What's the number of flights world wide? Too big. We would see a number of accidents if everyone kept their phones on all the time. As a death is one too many, it warrants the ban…

The "a death is one too many" argument is completely fallacious. If anyone actually believed it, we would all drive our cars at 10 MPH and never fly in planes. Every day we sacrifice human lives for small (or big) conveniences. It's not nice to think about, but it's the way our world works.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#50

Post by ultrasaurus »

spokey wrote: post #2

If they were really dangerous, I suspect they wouldn't let you have them in the cabin at all. "Everyone turn off your phone" isn't the level of safety compliance major airlines typically rely on.

I flew a plane for the first time yesterday, it was only a tiny two seater, but with modern electronics. My instructor was using his iPhone during the flight and he didn't seem worried.
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