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Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

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Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#391
Joined a tech company in summer of 2000 after the dotcom bubble had already burst, but many people still thought tech market would bounce back. The company was able to raise around 60 million just after I joined. Located to Silicon Valley few months later. (This was already part of the deal when I joined.)

The product we were making was quite solid and also quite generic, but the management/investors decided to concentrate on dotcom related markets which ultimately went bust later. Our core development team did not suffer that much, but around us there were so many layoffs I lost count. I personally survived at least five layoffs.

It was actually quite interesting time to live in Silicon Valley. My coworkers all still believed in dotcoms although those companies had lost much of their market value. I had just taken some introductory finance classes and knew that fundamentally all this was unsound -- and had some interesting chats explaining to coworkers that diversifying means more than investing in few different dotcom stocks.

I continued to work there as the work was interesting, pay was good and it was interesting to see Silicon Valley through the disillusionment phase as it is part of the history.

Since I was working only for one company I did not have very wide vision, but it seemed to me Silicon Valley was full of gold diggers at the time. It was quite something to see several minutes of job ads before movies, for example.

The company did very crazy decisions. Their goal was to get listed in NASDAQ, and for this all the graphs had to show exponential growth no matter whether it was unsustainable. This meant stupid hiring, offices in all continents etc.

By stupid hiring I mean that some people were clearly hired just for the head count, not to provide any real valuable service. But our core development was kind of inner ring that was protected and continued doing interesting work throughout all the craziness around.

I was once traveling with the CEO and he told me that he had just come off from meeting with the investors -- they had demanded that the expenses should be raised to $1M per month.

The company burned through the money in the three years I was there, basically on offices, stupid hiring and travel. After I traveled in economy class in overseas flights, I was told that everybody else was traveling business class. The chairman of the board insisted on traveling first class. There was actually one BOFH who insisted on first class travel too (he had to set up the infra for the offices), and I think they accepted it too.

In 2002 I had enough, so I relocated back where to I came from. One year later I quit the company. The constant layoffs impacted the mood of the company so much I did not want to work there anymore.

I took a sabbatical year, finished my second master's degree and spent three months doing volunteer work. After the sabbatical I joined the company where I had left before I went to work in Silicon Valley.

I was not unemployed (against my own will) for one single day throughout all this. I think what saved me was that I had saved so much that I could be independent for a year, that I worked with smart people who recognized my talents although I was still quite young developer. But mostly it was luck, I guess.

I would not trade away the experience.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#392
post #330

I worked through the tail end of the dotcom boom and saw all of the dot com bust. My company went from 1500 people to about 300 people in 1 year. Layoffs decimated the company, and eventually we were bought by a competitor. I have coworkers who were out of a job for 2+ years. One of my personal friends on H1B had to pump gas overnight, and transferred his balances between credit cards just to stay alive. Entire techn…

Why do you think the outsourcing never got quite as bad as everyone expected?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#393

After reading this thread, now I get why /r/financialindependence is so full of IT guys like me. We got so roasted during 2001, that we never ever again want to be dependent on our cosy well paying jobs we know not to take for granted. I think FIRE is mostly an insurance for us who has seen those dark days. Like 50% of the other swedes working in IT, I got kicked out of the trade for many years. Moved to China, had a…

Indeed. I had a cushy government job for years and remember reading about FIRE. But at some point, I decided I'd go freelancing and although you earn better, it definitely put the fear of recessions in me, and I've seriously started my FIRE journey. Including, like you said, a hedged investment portfolio.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#394
post #193

I had my H1B visa and ready to work in USA. Resigned my job. My US employer asked me not to board the flight since the job situation was very bad. That was beginning of 2001. I tried for other jobs and got a UK work permit by mid 2001. But that also went bust very shortly due to UK dot com crash. I must have been the only person with two countries work permits and without a job. Local companies refused to hire me onc…

So how did you manage to stay afloat in your home country? Could you live with your parents or something?

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#395

In Switzerland, the worst event was not this one but 9/11 in 2001. In a matter of a few hours all new IT/IS project were cancelled and budgets for IT/IS were frozen to below the minimum in all companies. It took almost a year to recover a little. I started my career during the summer 2001. I was hired in seconds without any technical test. All (no exception) my friends who wanted to chill during the summer before fin…

Why were jobs in Switzerland affected?

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#396
post #193

I had my H1B visa and ready to work in USA. Resigned my job. My US employer asked me not to board the flight since the job situation was very bad. That was beginning of 2001. I tried for other jobs and got a UK work permit by mid 2001. But that also went bust very shortly due to UK dot com crash. I must have been the only person with two countries work permits and without a job. Local companies refused to hire me onc…

So how did you manage to stay afloat in your home country? Could you live with your parents or something?

I'm from India. I was living off my savings and my parents.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I work the non-union staff are not laid off in downturns, only the union staff.

If your company does business in the United States, they're violating the law. https://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/whats-law/employers/d... Section 8(a)(3) of the Act makes it an unfair labor practice for an employer, "by discrimination in regard to hire or tenure of employment or any term or condition of employment[,] to encourage or discourage membership in any labor organization." (An employer that violates Sec…

This is nothing to do with union membership: when sales are down we slow the production line (everything is just in time) and part of that is letting go people on the production line who are not needed at the slower pace of operations. They will be recalled if sales improve. You have to be union to work on the production line (that is in the contract), so there is no discouragement of membership.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#398
post #37

I was ~1.5 years out of college and at a small dot-com with a niche SaaS at the time. I distinctly remember 9/11 and the chill that came over our office that day. That passed in time, but our economic prospects never recovered. I used to hit the gym in the mornings and then work ~10am-7pm and I distinctly remember the day ~9 months later when the VP of engineering called me on my cell while I was finishing up my work…

I know of one company that actually managed to pull off the pivot thing! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TippingPoint They switched from an internet appliance (kind of like an early Chromebook) to smart deep packet inspection firewalls. Not a ton in common between those except that they both require hardware to be built. If I remember right, local lore was that they pulled it off partly by realizing early that they nee…

Novell was a successful pivot. Novell started as a hardware company, with a proprietary computer based on the 68000. That bombed, so the pivot was to NetWare. That dominated PC networking for about 15 years.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#399
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no “grinding leetcode” in the late 90s...

What were SWE interviews and interview prep like back in late 90s/early 00s?

The cargo cult of the day were the Microsoft style logic puzzles, "how many telephone poles are there in Seattle" and that sort of thing.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#400

I graduated in 2002, took a "Beltway Bandit" consulting job testing Java code for a Treasury project in a basement in Hyattsville, MD, watched my older friends who graduated in 2000 into dotcom pay struggle to keep up payments on their Porsches, and counted my blessings for being able to pay my student loans and foolish new car purchase. Two years later, I took a US Army contracting job in Germany, and through a coup…

I was working at Treasury in Hyattsville around that time (in the basement as a matter of fact, where I think most of the contractors lived) but that was my first job after getting away from all of the .com bubble-busting BS.

Salaries were still pretty good (but flat) for those pros who stuck around and had actual technical skill, but a lot of the newer people to technology had it much rougher.

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