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Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#381

Post by wpietri »

ianmcgowan wrote: post #311
wpietri wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> agile has killed the happiness of our industry I don't think you're wrong, but I should point out that Agile started out as a rebellion against "meetings, rituals, and meta-work and not actual productivity". As somebody who got involved in one of the Agile tributaries before the term "Agile" was coined, I'd say the actual problem is older and deeper. I look forward to another rebellion, but would-be revolutionaries…

It seems that this generation's revolutionaries are always the next generation's reactionaries..

In this case, not so much. Most of the early Agile people I've had the chance to talk with are a bit horrified by what it's become.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#382

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #310
LAC-Tech wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read the original manifesto and principles, and quite frankly I'm not that impressed with them either. Some of the principles are actively harmful, like welcoming changing requirements late in the process.

Yep. "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools" OK, not terrible, but why not "interactions and tools over individuals and processes"? De-emphasize individual's egos and ritualized processes, focus on the things that get work done and communication between entities. "Working software over comprehensive documentation" Tends to make very frustrating-to-use software, because it's never fully working and has…

> "Working software over comprehensive documentation"

> Tends to make very frustrating-to-use software, because it's never fully working and has minimal documentation.

Another problem:

It makes onboarding new engineers difficult. Without any documentation on what each API endpoint does, or the purpose of every repo, getting an understanding of how the system works ends up requiring scanning through code manually or taking a lot of time from other engineers asking questions.

It's especially bad when microservices are given non-descriptive names like Galactus or Omega Star.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#384

Post by Barrin92 »

Rearchitecing and higher level system design are some of my favorite things. I really like thinking about big software systems. I also enjoy programming and implementation quite a lot.

The one thing that's getting more and more prominent that really hounds me is DevOps, tooling and deployment related stuff. Be it containerization, credentials, complicated toolchains and dev environment setup, I absolutely hate how convoluted all of this has become and how little anything of it has to do with the actual software you're supposed to build.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#385

Post by doetoe »

elil17 wrote: post #147
xwdv wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>most people stuck in unhappy marriages are men That is wildly untrue. The research on whether men or women are more satisfied in their marriages shows that they have about the same levels of satisfaction. For example: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jomf.12077 Not really sure why the demographics of philosophers effects the impact of the statement. Most philosophers are white, would it have been more imp…

Just a side remark, but "most philosophers are white" should probably be "most philosophers you heard about"

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#388

Post by complex_exp »

tsunamifury wrote: post #321

Every few months or so we get these really circle jerky posts by engineers who believe the world of business is them just pumping out code and somehow getting paid. 1) that’s the difference between a job and a hobby. You do the hard parts you’re paid to do sometimes. 2) decisions you don’t like by stakeholders you don’t like aren’t always wrong just because you see some way to “code it”. A product is not just its cod…

That very well may be true, but what's wrong with trying to cheat the system and do only the fun part? Clearly some people manage to do just that. I generally don't care about making the business fly, I care about what I care about.

A better discussion would be about what can you reasonably expect, for example you'll probably never lead a project which puts a limit on your salary. It may still be a good decision.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#389

Post by ajmurmann »

selestify wrote: post #368
mindcrime wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't upvote this enough times. Time and time again you see this: people say "I hate agile because of X, Y and Z" where X, Y, and Z - at best - are orthogonal to the idea of Agile, and at worst (and perhaps even "ordinarily") are complete anathema to the spirit of Agile. Sorry, but anybody who thinks Agile is about velocity, story points, planning poker, standups, retrospectives, backlog grooming, etc. has been sold…

What is actually Agile then, and how does one actually practice it?

agilemanifesto.org

Constant reflection and drive towards faster feedback. XP or if I squint Scrum can be a starting point, but you gotta adapt to the individuals on the team and the characteristics of the type of problem you are solving.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#390

Post by lr4444lr »

selestify wrote: post #368
mindcrime wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't upvote this enough times. Time and time again you see this: people say "I hate agile because of X, Y and Z" where X, Y, and Z - at best - are orthogonal to the idea of Agile, and at worst (and perhaps even "ordinarily") are complete anathema to the spirit of Agile. Sorry, but anybody who thinks Agile is about velocity, story points, planning poker, standups, retrospectives, backlog grooming, etc. has been sold…

What is actually Agile then, and how does one actually practice it?

It's a methodology that makes software more resilient to the changing needs of the business. Anything that violates the 12 canonical principles[0] should be thrown out - and this has to be determined by each org. individually.

[0] https://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html

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