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Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

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Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#361

Post by CrimsonCape »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #284
kevin061 wrote: post #219

I don't think this will ever be resolved. It's a twofold problem, I believe. People are lonely because of fear of rejection and also actively avoid new people out of caution and high standards. So two people who are otherwise lonely will make no effort to connect. I think social networks have done a tremendous amount of damage to our collective psyche. Because on the web, you can single-click permanently block someon…

I do believe high standards are behind a lot of the dating issues. Dating pools are so large that people hold out for the right combination of the things they find desirable--except they're never going to find that because they don't have exactly the right combination to attract that "perfect" match.

I can't help but think that in 1910, both the concept of "fear of rejection" and "high standards" would have made no sense to people at the time. Yet I would agree that they are valid concepts today. We have to explore why these two concepts exist and why they did not exist in 1910. It seems valid to call them side effects of something bigger, what the bigger is I don't know. I don't see how society can address these two issues without addressing the other issues that lead to the existence of these.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#362

Post by yoyohello13 »

FloorEgg wrote: post #315

Having kids (with the right partner and good intentions as a parent) is a great way to avoid feeling lonely. The kid(s) are tremendous source of connection. You may trade for a feeling of exhaustion, overwhelming responsibility, etc. but a lot less loneliness. Also go a step further and join support groups for parents. Community resources where kids play and parents can hang out and chat. Connection is built through…

I think you’ve missed a step here. How are lonely and alone people, who have trouble finding friends, supposed to find a spouse and have kids?

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#363

Post by ynac »

Since it's a societal problem, but solved on the microlevel of one person at a time, it seems the way to have a broader effect is to show the value of having connection with other people over the value of not.

Overcome any addictions (scrolling, gaming, etc.) that stand in the way would be easier if the goal was clear.

Overcoming attitudes and defensive beliefs (too many cliques, they won't talk to me...) go away when you can either recall a time when you had friends or know others who do.

Convince people it's better (in their own value system) to be social, have friends of all kinds, and let them know their value and meaning increase by being a friend, I think you'd have a hard time stopping people from becoming social.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#364

Post by acuozzo »

SoftTalker wrote: post #137
iambateman wrote: post #111

The first place to look is suburban development. I wrote an article[0] on Tiny Neighborhoods (aka “Cohousing”) that starts with: > “I often wonder if the standard approach to housing is the best we can do. About 70% of Americans live in a suburb, which means that this design pattern affects our lives – where we shop, how we eat, who we know – more than any other part of modern life.” We have been so uncritical of the…

I posted on another subthread but I think this is largely an excuse. If you live in a typical suburb you have 15-20 families on your street. You can easily walk next door and chat or just say hello when you see someone outside. It takes initiative, which is the key thing that's missing. You either hide in your house or you get out and be sociable.

> You can easily walk next door and chat or just say hello when you see someone outside.

I have no problem with socialization and I have an unusually-active social life for a thirty-eight year old married man with three kids, so I clearly don't lack initiative.

With that being said, all of my neighbors are either elderly, shut-ins, or just don't want to be bothered; even the ones with kids.

My wife & I helped organize a Block Party last year and I'm fairly certain it resulted in 0 new friendships for any of the attendees.

What's the solution here? Friendships need to have mutual interest, no?

I think it's a circular problem. Like, my kids don't go outside much because there are no other kids outside to play with.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#365

Post by alexisread »

windowpains wrote: post #354
asdfman123 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trick is getting off social media. When I was a computer nerd in the 2000s, I noticed people used to like to hang around and chat, but I mostly didn't. Now, everyone is an internet addict, and I was just ahead of the curve. No one hangs around and chats anymore. When you get off social media, real life becomes far more interesting. The problem with addiction is that it's so stimulating that everything els…

Let me tell you about real life. I’m a caregiver and leaving the home is simply not an option. Short trips to the store, a walk around the block, maybe, if it’s before sundown, provided the person I’m caring for is in the right mental state to be left alone for 45 minutes. If there were neighborhood pubs that might be a thing to do if I drank. Getting off social media is great for those lucky enough to have the optio…

Tip of the hat there, it’s a very selfless thing to commit to caregiving. From a 50kft view, we have an aging demographic globally, and the bet seems to be robotics- hopefully they will get good enough to help meaningfully in this capacity. What happens to an economic system predicated around having more kids (GDP growth) is another concern.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#366

Post by publicdebates »

windowpains wrote: post #354
asdfman123 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trick is getting off social media. When I was a computer nerd in the 2000s, I noticed people used to like to hang around and chat, but I mostly didn't. Now, everyone is an internet addict, and I was just ahead of the curve. No one hangs around and chats anymore. When you get off social media, real life becomes far more interesting. The problem with addiction is that it's so stimulating that everything els…

Let me tell you about real life. I’m a caregiver and leaving the home is simply not an option. Short trips to the store, a walk around the block, maybe, if it’s before sundown, provided the person I’m caring for is in the right mental state to be left alone for 45 minutes. If there were neighborhood pubs that might be a thing to do if I drank. Getting off social media is great for those lucky enough to have the optio…

First, sorry for what you're going through. Also, your situation is definitely an outlier that I can't focus my main efforts on. Maybe someone else is meant for that. But I'm curious, why not have friends over? Is anything like this possible?

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#367

Post by truenfel »

I've been working on something called Open Enough Design (OED). The core idea: most rooms force a binary choice between total isolation (the bunker) and overwhelming exposure (the stage). Neither works. What works is a dial you can adjust.

In my book "Leave the Door Open" I suggest simple, high leverage moves anyone can do. Three examples of practical moves that cost nothing:

-Turn your chair to face the door instead of a wall. Your nervous system relaxes when it can see who's coming.

- If you live alone, open your door or window four inches for an hour. The sounds of life beyond your walls remind your body you're not alone on the planet.

- Put out a second chair. Even if no one visits. It shifts your internal posture from "no one is coming" to "I'm expecting life to enter."

Small changes, I know. But the room shapes you as much as you shape it. It's a virtuous cycle.

I write about this at oedmethod.substack.com if you want to go deeper.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#369

Post by seneca »

publicdebates wrote: post #321
soulofmischief wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I love you. Since I was a small child, my grandfather used to beat me savagely and shake me and pin me to the ground, screaming that the devil was inside of me and that I would never be capable of loving or being loved. This was literally beaten into me. He'd beat me with the buckle end of the belt, like a whip, hitting my face, arms, whatever he could. He'd keep beating me until I couldn't cry anymore, telling…

I appreciate the sentiment, but knowing that it's entirely coming from you and your experiences, and nothing to do with me and my own personality except for the one thing we have somewhat in common, means that your comment is to me merely a representation of you and what you stand for. Which is great and beautiful, but it doesn't cross the bridge of being a meaningful comment on my end. That's actually the exact prob…

> it's entirely coming from you and your experiences, and nothing to do with me and my own personality except for the one thing we have somewhat in common, means that your comment is to me merely a representation of you and what you stand for. Which is great and beautiful, but it doesn't cross the bridge of being a meaningful comment on my end.

Man, well said. People who "over engage" are doing it out of a sense of kindness, but you're right that it feels hollow and is really just about them.

I think the solution to this is basically what you're doing. Build small connections via whatever engagement mechanism you can and let them organically grow into meaningful ones. Jumping from zero to pretending you have a meaningful connection is exactly why those gestures feel hollow. There is no shortcut, it takes time.

Sounds like you're making those initial connections with your signs, which I think is great.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#370

Post by epistasis »

roadside_picnic wrote: post #299
asdfman123 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trick is getting off social media. When I was a computer nerd in the 2000s, I noticed people used to like to hang around and chat, but I mostly didn't. Now, everyone is an internet addict, and I was just ahead of the curve. No one hangs around and chats anymore. When you get off social media, real life becomes far more interesting. The problem with addiction is that it's so stimulating that everything els…

Thankfully social media is getting so much worse so fast it's making this easier and easier. HN is the last social media platform I still participate in... and I suspect that might not be for too much longer. I recently logged onto Facebook and Instagram to update my 2-factor auth settings after having too many notifications of malicious login attempts. It was incredible to see what a transformation has happened ther…

> Reddit is mostly bots, astro-turfers and people so brainwashed it's hard to tell the difference. I remember disagreeing with people on there (this in the pre-Digg migration era) you would get interesting divergent points of view. Now it's like people are reading from a script.

It's hard to classify Reddit as one thing, the communities are all so different.

The subreddit for my town has led to several new friends that I meet with in person. Most of that came from coming together to advocate for something at a city council meeting or similar, where there was a directed meat space purpose. Getting together for hobbies like hiking or other things happens once in a while too.

On other, technical subreddits dedicated to digging deep into details, there are few bots. It's all real people with shared interests. Reddit is far better than most forums that I frequent for finding those communities.

The few times I have been swarmed by bots on Reddit was when I touched on a topic where, say, Russia had a strategic interest, then the subreddit would get tons of new commentators from other subreddits, which was the indication of bots. Fortunately the mods took swift action when this happened, becuase my god the discourse is awful when bots flood the zone with their babble.

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