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Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

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Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#361

Post by mrastro »

BeetleB wrote: post #190
jakub_g wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Poland, the default way for computer shops in 2000-2010s was to offer 2% discount when paying in cash. (The prices displayed were assuming cash, so if you paid by card, you'd pay more.) I didn't see this anywhere else though. It probably made sense for computer shops because most transactions one would do there would be sporadic, big, and planned. (Since then, the Mastercard/Visa fees went down to 0.2-0.3% due to…

> I didn't see this anywhere else though. In the US offering different prices when paying by cash vs card was a violation of the agreement with Visa, as is putting a minimum price threshold for card usage. It's still fairly widespread though, and occasionally makes the news. Might explain why you didn't see it often.

Do gas stations have a special deal with the card processors then? Basically all of them have a lower cash price.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#362

Post by alex_lazarin »

peteforde wrote: post #339
alex_lazarin wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasonable people can disagree. What is a customer to do if they think a merchant is not a bad actor, but mistakenly refuses to refund their purchase? A chargeback seems like the fastest and cheapest option to resolve the dispute.

Only if you approach the domain with ignorance. It's very, very clear that chargebacks are not the play in most cases.

1. What are the alternatives? 2. Can you explain why chargebacks are not the play in most cases?

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#363

Post by bgnn »

mcntsh wrote: post #356
FabHK wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if receiving payments would’ve been as easy as receiving email from the beginning. In Germany, every business (and some individuals) has published their account number for ages (on the letterhead, website, etc.), typically right next to their address and email address (or fax number, for that matter). And with that account number, you can just transfer money to the recipient. It really is as easy as email.

Imagine you are an sized e-commerce merchant. Someone checks out on your website and sends you a bank transfer. Then what? You go through your ledger (bank account), find the transaction with an order ID as a memo (hopefully the buyer added it and correctly), and then you look up that order in your system and submit the order form to your warehouse?

It works like: customer gets an order number and puts this on the description of the bank transfer. This is parsed by the accounting SW coupled to this bank account, and voila!

Most banks charge some amount per transaction on commercial accounts though.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#364

Post by bgnn »

dmalik wrote: post #240
leobg wrote: post #164

Just imagine how different the Internet would look like today if receiving payments would’ve been as easy as receiving email from the beginning. That it is not trivial for a single person on the Internet to receive payments without a third-party involved, in my mind, leads directly to an Internet that is based on ads and on monopolies: You can’t make a living posting stuff online on your own private website. Because…

In Canada we've had email money transfer since 2003. It used to cost $1 if you had a different bank then the person you were sending to but now it's free. Generally only good for friends and marketplace items though. Can't use it for ecommerce.

Why isn't it not possible for e-commerce?

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#365

Post by langcss »

Terretta wrote: post #359
konschubert wrote: post #80

It’s the ultimate two sided marketplace and super hard to bootstrap. But if you find a way to debit peoples bank account with 0 fees and 0 default risk and The problem is: Getting merchants and customers on board. I’m personally super interested in this topic. If anyone what’s to chat about this: mail@konstantinschubert.com

> It's the ultimate two sided marketplace … The problem is: Getting merchants and customers on board. OK, but then there's the third side: banks. > find a way to debit peoples bank account with 0 fees and 0 default risk and Banks.

Banks don't do this well. It isn't always low transaction time, it isn't always 0 default risk, it is usually 0 fees but not internationally and the UX is not great.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#366

Post by Jasonbe »

I wanted to share some thoughts on the significant fees we currently pay to companies like Stripe, PayPal, and Visa/Mastercard, which run into billions annually.

These fees are largely due to the complex infrastructure and intermediaries involved in traditional payment processing. However, the Bitcoin Lightning Network offers a promising alternative.

The Lightning Network is a decentralized, second-layer solution built on top of Bitcoin, allowing for near-instant transactions at a fraction of the cost.

It eliminates many of the intermediaries that drive up costs in traditional systems, potentially saving businesses billions in fees.

Additionally, it supports micropayments and offers enhanced security and privacy, making it a viable option for reducing our reliance on traditional payment processors.While there are challenges in adoption and regulation, the Lightning Network could become a strong competitor to these established players within the next decade, offering a more efficient and cost-effective solution for processing payments.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#367

Post by mcntsh »

bgnn wrote: post #363
mcntsh wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you are an sized e-commerce merchant. Someone checks out on your website and sends you a bank transfer. Then what? You go through your ledger (bank account), find the transaction with an order ID as a memo (hopefully the buyer added it and correctly), and then you look up that order in your system and submit the order form to your warehouse?

It works like: customer gets an order number and puts this on the description of the bank transfer. This is parsed by the accounting SW coupled to this bank account, and voila! Most banks charge some amount per transaction on commercial accounts though.

The problem is that it's extremely failure prone and not instant.

Gotta wait for the buyer to make the transfer, you gotta wait for the transfer to go through, you gotta hope that the buyer put in the order number in the description.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#368

Post by FabHK »

Lionga wrote: post #352
FabHK wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if receiving payments would’ve been as easy as receiving email from the beginning. In Germany, every business (and some individuals) has published their account number for ages (on the letterhead, website, etc.), typically right next to their address and email address (or fax number, for that matter). And with that account number, you can just transfer money to the recipient. It really is as easy as email.

It really is not, and I would assume less 1% of consumer purchases are done using a bank tranfer / account number.

In Germany (2021), online purchases were paid by:

   33% Bill & bank transfer
   20% Direct debit
   20% PayPal
   11% Credit card
   16% various others
https://www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/banken-versicherungen/...

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#369

Post by Terretta »

langcss wrote: post #365
Terretta wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the ultimate two sided marketplace … The problem is: Getting merchants and customers on board. OK, but then there's the third side: banks. > find a way to debit peoples bank account with 0 fees and 0 default risk and Banks.

Banks don't do this well. It isn't always low transaction time, it isn't always 0 default risk, it is usually 0 fees but not internationally and the UX is not great.

> Banks don't do this well.

Exactly!

(And's that speaking as former CTO of one of the largest banks in the world.)

I was responding to:

>> "ultimate two sided marketplace"

Banks' role in anyone's attempt to solve this is why one can't forget there are three sides, not two, to getting this right. Get the right intro and a bank might even want to foot your bootstrapping bill given how challenging things can be internally.

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