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Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

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Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#351

Post by FireBeyond »

_w1tm wrote: post #289
FireBeyond wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you swipe a card at a gas station, they often run a $50 authorization hold on your account. Safeway gas stations upgraded their pumps to have tap-to-pay. But with increasing gas prices (and not getting into that), they upped the auth hold to up to $125. Except many card issuers limit contactless payments to $100... rendering tap to pay useless on the pump because it'll deny the preauth and require chip inserti…

> Except many card issuers limit contactless payments to $100... rendering tap to pay useless on the pump because it'll deny the preauth and require chip insertion. I’ve noticed lately that contactless payments that go over the limit don’t require chip insertion, the reader just asks for the PIN to proceed. Maybe there’s been some updates to the standards?

Hmmm, not all credit cards have a PIN. Debit card, I could see that. I don't know if the data on the card indicates if there is a PIN attached to the card (i.e. ask for it if there is, don't ask if there's not).

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#352

Post by Lionga »

FabHK wrote: post #202
leobg wrote: post #164

Just imagine how different the Internet would look like today if receiving payments would’ve been as easy as receiving email from the beginning. That it is not trivial for a single person on the Internet to receive payments without a third-party involved, in my mind, leads directly to an Internet that is based on ads and on monopolies: You can’t make a living posting stuff online on your own private website. Because…

> if receiving payments would’ve been as easy as receiving email from the beginning. In Germany, every business (and some individuals) has published their account number for ages (on the letterhead, website, etc.), typically right next to their address and email address (or fax number, for that matter). And with that account number, you can just transfer money to the recipient. It really is as easy as email.

It really is not, and I would assume less 1% of consumer purchases are done using a bank tranfer / account number.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#353

Post by RamblingCTO »

RunSet wrote: post #318
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was not just "scrapped", they were basically forbidden from going ahead by regulators protecting the incumbents. It's the same problem all cryptocurrency projects face. They allowed Bitcoin because Bitcoin is basically useless for payments, it's too slow and fees are way too expensive. Though Ethereum recently slipping through the cracks may disrupt the payments industry in a big way. Coinbase and Circle are alrea…

> They allowed Bitcoin because Bitcoin is basically useless for payments, it's too slow and fees are way too expensive. Though Ethereum recently slipping through the cracks may disrupt the payments industry in a big way. Or authorities "allowed" Bitcoin because, given its lack of head to cut off, they had no choice. Contrast with Ethereum's demonstrable central authority over its blockchain: When the developers were…

You give plenty of examples yourself as to why it might be considered something worth prohibiting? It enables fraud above all else and doesn't offer undoing of errors from a users perspective, and thus it will never replace any of the things OP mentioned.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#354

Post by RamblingCTO »

We have real time payments in the EU that at least should replace PayPal in theory. But it fails due to friction, as most older banks (not neo banks or fintechs) have no easy way to present someone your IBAN. I'd also be wary to just present my IBAN to strangers, as it's enough to create a direct debit (I believe it's called). I'd miss the abstraction layer of protection. But then again I got cheated and neither PayPal nor my neobank provider helped me.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#355

Post by avnfish »

TimJRobinson wrote: post #302
cedws wrote: post #33

This is why I was excited about Libra (later renamed to Diem.) which was Meta's feeless digital currency that was scrapped. It could have been a Western WeChat Pay, which charges no fees up to 200 RMB ~= 20 GBP. I don't see why they should get to shave a slice off of every transaction. It takes relatively little upkeep and they rake in huge profits. The fees nudge businesses to use cash (well, to avoid tax too, somet…

Coinbase + USDC are essentialy this now. They've started working with many merchants both in the real world and online to add USDC pay and transactions are less than a cent with Coinbase charging no additional fees.

Yep, plus Apple is opening up the NFC API for tap to pay. I could easily see merchants accept both cards (2%+8c) and USDC (0%) at point of sale

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#356

Post by mcntsh »

FabHK wrote: post #202
leobg wrote: post #164

Just imagine how different the Internet would look like today if receiving payments would’ve been as easy as receiving email from the beginning. That it is not trivial for a single person on the Internet to receive payments without a third-party involved, in my mind, leads directly to an Internet that is based on ads and on monopolies: You can’t make a living posting stuff online on your own private website. Because…

> if receiving payments would’ve been as easy as receiving email from the beginning. In Germany, every business (and some individuals) has published their account number for ages (on the letterhead, website, etc.), typically right next to their address and email address (or fax number, for that matter). And with that account number, you can just transfer money to the recipient. It really is as easy as email.

Imagine you are an sized e-commerce merchant. Someone checks out on your website and sends you a bank transfer. Then what?

You go through your ledger (bank account), find the transaction with an order ID as a memo (hopefully the buyer added it and correctly), and then you look up that order in your system and submit the order form to your warehouse?

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#357

Post by mcntsh »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #354

We have real time payments in the EU that at least should replace PayPal in theory. But it fails due to friction, as most older banks (not neo banks or fintechs) have no easy way to present someone your IBAN. I'd also be wary to just present my IBAN to strangers, as it's enough to create a direct debit (I believe it's called). I'd miss the abstraction layer of protection. But then again I got cheated and neither PayP…

For p2p transactions yeah but most financial institutions lack the tooling necessary to make taking payments for orders viable.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#358

Post by joshstrange »

avnfish wrote: post #355
TimJRobinson wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coinbase + USDC are essentialy this now. They've started working with many merchants both in the real world and online to add USDC pay and transactions are less than a cent with Coinbase charging no additional fees.

Yep, plus Apple is opening up the NFC API for tap to pay. I could easily see merchants accept both cards (2%+8c) and USDC (0%) at point of sale

2%+8c alone seems unheard of and the idea of normal people using USDC is laughable. Have you interacted with the general public? Heck, even if it was as easy as Apple Pay or NFC tap with a card most people still wouldn’t do it, look at financial literacy in this country.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#359

Post by Terretta »

konschubert wrote: post #80

It’s the ultimate two sided marketplace and super hard to bootstrap. But if you find a way to debit peoples bank account with 0 fees and 0 default risk and The problem is: Getting merchants and customers on board. I’m personally super interested in this topic. If anyone what’s to chat about this: mail@konstantinschubert.com

> It's the ultimate two sided marketplace … The problem is: Getting merchants and customers on board.

OK, but then there's the third side: banks.

> find a way to debit peoples bank account with 0 fees and 0 default risk and

Banks.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#360

Post by Nextgrid »

FireBeyond wrote: post #351
_w1tm wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except many card issuers limit contactless payments to $100... rendering tap to pay useless on the pump because it'll deny the preauth and require chip insertion. I’ve noticed lately that contactless payments that go over the limit don’t require chip insertion, the reader just asks for the PIN to proceed. Maybe there’s been some updates to the standards?

Hmmm, not all credit cards have a PIN. Debit card, I could see that. I don't know if the data on the card indicates if there is a PIN attached to the card (i.e. ask for it if there is, don't ask if there's not).

The card and terminal communicate on which CVMs (cardholder verification method) they support, and they agree on one. If they can't agree the transaction is either cancelled or processed as "no CVM" (like normal contactless tap & pay with a card) depending on the terminal's and card's risk profile.
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