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Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

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Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#341

Post by throwaway2037 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #272
cpersona wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear your experience has been that. As someone approaching that point, I wonder whether I will have to find other outlets besides the traditional tech meetups that I was attending more regularly in the times before covid. Since you do bring experience, I would recommend (if you haven't tried yet), to give talks instead of just attending. I have found that the speakers tend to be well received regardless as t…

Yeah...the thing about the talks (I'm quite good at that stuff), is that they also skew young, and generally, at least around here, they are considered as currency, so there's a lot of competition for them. I could really give a rat's ass about ego, and I'm not looking for work, so I'm not interested in mud-wrestling some hungry young turk, with a syllabus full of Buzzword Stew, for a speaking engagement. I'm good at…

Chris, I read your blog and many of your posts here. You are a good writer. Please don't stop.

First, it sucks that you are facing that age discrim IRL. In the tech world, "doing talks" is a bit like publishing in scientific research. It builds a brand name for yourself and increases your value. This is why the young and aggressive (and mostly men) want to do it. Plus, it is a form of fame and adoration. The same group wants that too.

Second, I had a idea reading this post: Did you ever consider "doing a talk" with an audience of zero? Record it exactly like you are giving a talk, then post to your blog or YouTube. People would watch it; I know it. The difference: You couldn't mix with an excited, buzzing crowd after your talk, but maybe the comments section would be interesting. If you get lucky (great talk), it will pop-up on HN. For example, you said you are "good at Swift and native Apple stuff". Watch a few YouTube videos on the topic. Find areas of weakness. That is an easy way to generate ideas.

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#342

Post by kayodelycaon »

DougEiffel wrote: post #335
SoftTalker wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My coworkers and family really wouldn't appreciate my shit posting. Shit posting is one of the biggest forms of toxicity online. It would be nice if it went away by tying posts to real people. Some people don't care and would shitpost anyway, but most people only shitpost because nobody knows who they really are.

I think maybe it depends how you define shit posting. If you mean trolling or posting extremely negative and low-effort content, then I suppose I agree with you about it being toxic. But if shitposting is just off-color jokes or talking about topics you might want to keep private, I don't see that as a problem. I think a lot of great internet content wouldn't exist without some form of anonymity. I certainly wouldn't…

My definition of shit posting is the stuff I say on Reddit. The highest rated comment on my previous account there would likely get me banned here. :)

Edit: I should note that shit posting on Reddit has a long and glorious tradition. It’s expected and highly upvoted.

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#344

Post by lofaszvanitt »

SoftTalker wrote: post #253
kayodelycaon wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first problem I see is separating my online identity with my real identity. I really don't want anyone at my job finding out which dog I am on the internet. My coworkers and family really wouldn't appreciate my shit posting. :) The second is friends of friends can get really awkward. There are some people who are friends with me that are also friends with people who never want to see me again.

> My coworkers and family really wouldn't appreciate my shit posting. Shit posting is one of the biggest forms of toxicity online. It would be nice if it went away by tying posts to real people. Some people don't care and would shitpost anyway, but most people only shitpost because nobody knows who they really are.

Grow a thick skin. Instead of shielding people from real world things expose them to it. In a few generations they get used to it/learn to use it.

Like Google deliberately fucking up their image search and not releasing a proper face search... because rainbow ponies would fall from the sky.

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#345

Post by mathieuh »

mattl wrote: post #319
mariusor wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person you're replying to, but I agree with them. For me shitposting is discussing in bad faith.

But what is it?

Being contrarian for no other reason than to annoy, or trying to get under someone’s skin, ignoring their arguments and riding roughshod over what they’re trying to say. Things people avoid doing in real life because very soon after doing them you find yourself disliked.

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#346

Post by paxys »

ineptech wrote: post #129

Fleeting idea that could be combined with that: a web-of-trust social network where you can only "friend" people in real life, by tapping phones. When you do so, the app might say, "The person you just met claims to be Joe Schmoe, do you want to vouch for them?" If you approve them, they can message you and vice versa. A friend of Joe's can see you in his friend list, and try to message you, and you can accept it if…

One of the primary utilities of a social network is being able to connect with people who aren't around you. If everyone on my Twitter was within shouting distance why would I need to Tweet at all?

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#347

Post by unsupp0rted »

bnralt wrote: post #151
wheats wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a really unintuitive system for ranking too? Like make it unclear why some posts are ranked higher than others, and why some are somehow greyed out even though there isn't an obvious way to downvote or report content. Also make it so you have to manually minimize the top reply in order to see the second most popular topline reply because there should be absolutely no limit to seeing the amount of subreplies.

The thing that gets me about the unintuitive system for ranking is that you have zero idea how long something will be on the front page. It could be 3 hours old, #4 on the page, with a few hundred upvotes and more points than almost all of the votes on the front page, and then just disappear an hour later. And once something drops off the front page, it gets seen by almost no one. I keep trying to stop myself from sp…

I have no interest in what quantity of people end up reading my comments. What difference does it make to me if it’s a popular thread or an unpopular one?

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#349

Post by adlpz »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #342
DougEiffel wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think maybe it depends how you define shit posting. If you mean trolling or posting extremely negative and low-effort content, then I suppose I agree with you about it being toxic. But if shitposting is just off-color jokes or talking about topics you might want to keep private, I don't see that as a problem. I think a lot of great internet content wouldn't exist without some form of anonymity. I certainly wouldn't…

My definition of shit posting is the stuff I say on Reddit. The highest rated comment on my previous account there would likely get me banned here. :) Edit: I should note that shit posting on Reddit has a long and glorious tradition. It’s expected and highly upvoted.

I'd say that then this hypothetical new social network just wouldn't be suitable for Reddit-like shitposting.

Keep Reddit and Twitter for that, this-new-thing for real-identity real talk.

I don't see a problem and I'd love it.

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#350

Post by jancsika »

Both Reddit and HN show there's an enormous value in letting anyone arrive with nearly no friction and participate. Limiting reach in the way that you suggest reduces your social network essentially to an imessage competitor.

IMO you should make a bog standard centralized social network like Twitter or whatever people are currently using. Then split your resources between the following two activities:

1. maintain a simpler, leaner, and faster interface than everyone else. Make it easier to join than everything else. And keep it that way, as much as you can. Like a craigslist UI for the 2020s.

2. put all the rest of your dollars and time into a) building an army of anti-sockpuppet/anti-abuse/anti-astroturfing techniques and b) documenting (responsibly) the existence, behavior, and elimination of said sockpuppets/astroturf campaigns. Essentially you'll be stockpiling and utilizing myriad anti-spam/anti-abuse techniques, some of which you can periodically burn to explain how you discover and remove problematic accounts at scale.

The anti-spam/anti-abuse documentation gives insight into the problems of running a social network at scale. However, it serves a more important purpose: to begin to put a floor on the types of social media manipulation that your users will tolerate. There was a day when employees would sift through email inboxes zapping spam, yet no one is willing to do that anymore. Your users will similarly become used to a much more pleasant and fulfilling social media experience. And if you do it right it puts a spin on your lower number of users and user-engagement-- i.e., you're accurately measuring your users, whereas all your competitors have an incentive to cook the books. ;)

However, this model is essentially incompatible with the current social media adtech, so you'd probably have to do a subscription model.

Also-- why not let a single paying user be able to sign up, say, ten or so friends using their subscription? Perhaps let them know that if any one gets suspended, they all get suspended. Would be interesting to see the social dynamics of that... :)

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