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Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#311

Post by kitsunesoba »

ninepoints wrote: post #306
kitsunesoba wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea behind macOS window management is to not manage windows at all, instead letting them exist at sizes that fit their content in whichever position they land on your desktop, stacking and overlapping like papers on a desk, letting relevant bits peek through without requiring the entirety of their host windows being visible. Exposé/Mission Control are there when a window gets lost, and virtual desktops are meant…

> it's quite different from Windows, where it's the norm to maximize everything. Where did you get this idea? It's definitely not the norm and MSFT supports an excellent tiling window system: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/fancyzon... Even without that utility though, it's easy to snap windows to one side or another of a monitor - particularly useful for ultra widescreen monitors

Based on seeing how most longtime Windows users use Windows. I rarely see tiling used, it’s almost always maximizing. Even on gigantic monitors and web pages with an 800px central column, they maximize.

The Windows users I encounter IRL tend to not be particularly technical though so that may bias things.

I personally get some usage out of tiling but as mentioned in another comment the tiling proposal triggers in W11 are over sensitive and kind of annoying.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#312

Post by nine_k »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #281
SebastianKra wrote: post #256

I always feel like Apple must have some grand 1000IQ concept for window management and I just don't get it. Stage Manager, Spaces, Mission Control, Expose, Window Zooming, Hiding, Minimizing (which is different from Hiding), Fullscreen/Splitscreen... yet the first thing I do is install a third-party window manager. I tried for months to go vanilla and get my head around the features. But why, why do fullscreen window…

The idea behind macOS window management is to not manage windows at all, instead letting them exist at sizes that fit their content in whichever position they land on your desktop, stacking and overlapping like papers on a desk, letting relevant bits peek through without requiring the entirety of their host windows being visible. Exposé/Mission Control are there when a window gets lost, and virtual desktops are meant…

It's a great way to waste both the screen real estate and the user's attention.

MacOS has a number of interesting features in the kernel, and it has a reasonably good and highly uniform UI, with global shortcuts and all. But its window management is insufferable.

Good thing there are utilities that try to help that. (I already forgot which, I handed back my last work-provided MBP in 2018.)

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#313

Post by detourdog »

capr wrote: post #272
SebastianKra wrote: post #256

I always feel like Apple must have some grand 1000IQ concept for window management and I just don't get it. Stage Manager, Spaces, Mission Control, Expose, Window Zooming, Hiding, Minimizing (which is different from Hiding), Fullscreen/Splitscreen... yet the first thing I do is install a third-party window manager. I tried for months to go vanilla and get my head around the features. But why, why do fullscreen window…

why do Apple users give so much benefit of the doubt to these people despite all evidence?

because when Multi-finder came out it satisfied our needs and don’t see a reason to change. I bet Apple has put a lot more effort into why they do things, then many give them credit.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#314

Post by nine_k »

tambourine_man wrote: post #264

This appears every now and then on HN. Window management in macOS is superficially similar but profoundly different from Windows or most Linux DEs. It's got a fixed menu bar which windows are independent from. That alone already changes a lot and has deep implications. My advice is to learn how and why it's different instead of trying to make it behave as something it's not. Waiting for Apple to turn it into a chimer…

Different enough, fine!

Would you please kindly provide a reference to a guide explaining the right way to operate macOS windows, preferably with some explanation of the concepts behind it. and the advantages it offers over the established practices known from elsewhere?

E.g. vi navigation is pretty different from Notepad's, but it's relatively easy to make a case when it shows certain advantages. What are the superpowers of the standard macOS WM?

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#315

Post by rifty »

AndrewSwift wrote: post #56

Mac user since 1987, Lisa user before. Mac windows do snap together when they're close to each other or the edge of the screen. You can option double-click any corner to make the window fill the screen without going into fullscreen mode. You can double-click any edge or corner to make it expand to the edge. Hold down option and mouse over the green traffic light, and you get the option to fill the left or right half…

Maybe you already know about these, they aren't free, but they do address your issues.

For number 1 there is: https://funk-isoft.com/display-maid.html or https://rectangleapp.com/pro

For number 2 there is: https://manytricks.com/menuwhere/

I think both should in some form be supported natively though. My reasoning for the second is that many apps are now using command palette search overlays when technically 'command + shift + ?' or even somewhat 'Move focus to menu bar' system option already does that. But because of large screens it should just pop over the focused window and unify this experience across all apps.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#316

Post by circuit10 »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #311
ninepoints wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's quite different from Windows, where it's the norm to maximize everything. Where did you get this idea? It's definitely not the norm and MSFT supports an excellent tiling window system: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/fancyzon... Even without that utility though, it's easy to snap windows to one side or another of a monitor - particularly useful for ultra widescreen monitors

Based on seeing how most longtime Windows users use Windows. I rarely see tiling used, it’s almost always maximizing. Even on gigantic monitors and web pages with an 800px central column, they maximize. The Windows users I encounter IRL tend to not be particularly technical though so that may bias things. I personally get some usage out of tiling but as mentioned in another comment the tiling proposal triggers in W11…

I think that’s generally what you want because having other windows visible would not only take space away from the application you’re using but also be distracting

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#317

Post by modeless »

derefr wrote: post #293
modeless wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These rationalizations don't justify it. The animation still has ugly pop-in and jerkiness despite being so slow and despite the fact that most apps can relayout and redraw their window in a tiny fraction of the time that animation takes. And screen sharing shouldn't make things slow when you're not using it. Anyway, I'd trade a bit of pop-in for a faster computer if that was necessary. There's no excuse to not offer…

> most apps can relayout and redraw their window in a tiny fraction of the time that animation takes Re-rendering to the same compositor target buffer (when you e.g. resize a window), and allocating new textures in (potentially) new formats under control of a new compositor target buffer, are different orders-of-magnitudes of work. Think about how much delay there is from the point you plug in an external display, to…

There is absolutely no reason for the common case of maximizing a regular window on the same display to switch texture formats or change resolutions or whatever else. That's silly. The compositor side of maximizing a regular window can and should be implemented in the same way that window resizing normally works, i.e. simply allocating one new screen sized texture to hold the application contents, which can be done in much less than one frame. For special cases like switching resolutions then sure, things can take longer, but that kind of thing is orders of magnitude less frequent than maximizing or switching between regular full screen windows.

If you think that Apple engineers can't optimize the compositor side work that needs to be done to maximize a regular window or switch between regular full screen windows to take less than one frame then you have a very poor opinion of their engineers that I do not share. And if you think it's not worth the effort to optimize a case that typically happens every couple of minutes while people use macOS then I have to disagree in the strongest possible terms.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#318

Post by latexr »

andybak wrote: post #11
dubcanada wrote: post #4

This does seem like a personal preference. I quite like MacOS window management, and I hate Windows window management.

Specific to snapping, you'd prefer there was no way to snap windows at all - even if it didn't affect the current behaviour?

There is snapping. It’s been there for years. All you have to do is drag a window to a side or the top.

While I’m not the person you asked, I would prefer if there was no window snapping at all. I wrote my own code for window management with keyboard shortcuts on macOS and dislike that it tries to be smart when I move windows with the mouse.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Apple refuse to add window snapping to macOS?

#319

Post by eastbound »

gardnr wrote: post #269
prewett wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you move the mouse up to the top of the screen in fullscreen mode the menu bar will reappear, so things work about like normal (although that certainly wasn't obvious the first time I pressed the green button). The double-click on the title bar is "Zoom" mode, which you can activate with Window >> Zoom. But I agree, it's not obvious, nor is it obvious what "Zoom" means.

This is a bit annoying when an app has its own menu near the top of the screen. The only app I use in full screen is a media player. Every time I try to interact with the in-app hamburger menu, the whole wind shifts and the system window bay animates out. I really don’t like the full screen behaviour in macOS.

IntelliJ also has a menu bar just below the top of the full screen. I wish Apple made the collapsing top menus require much more insistence before appearing.
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