Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 364 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#311

Post by jacquesm »

tptacek wrote: post #310
jacquesm wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you consider mailing Dan about this issue before making it an 'Ask HN' post?

This whole thing is pretty silly, right? The penalties for noncompliance with NYC's law apply to the listing company, not to the board they posted on. If you really think YC companies are deliberately skirting the law, report them to NYC. NYC does a one-time 90-day notice-and-cure, so you can "effect positive change" with listing YC companies without subjecting them to fines, if that's really what you're worried abou…

Exactly, and - assuming a mistake rather than maliciousness should have been the first take. There are 100's if not thousands of rules and regulations companies need to conform to and you should normally at a minimum give them a chance to fix this rather than to right away start yelling about them 'breaking the law', because no CEO that I'm aware of does so willingly (assuming they intend to stay in business and take their responsibilities somewhat seriously). This seems more like an exercise in grandstanding than actual concern.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#312

Post by tptacek »

jacquesm wrote: post #311
tptacek wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thing is pretty silly, right? The penalties for noncompliance with NYC's law apply to the listing company, not to the board they posted on. If you really think YC companies are deliberately skirting the law, report them to NYC. NYC does a one-time 90-day notice-and-cure, so you can "effect positive change" with listing YC companies without subjecting them to fines, if that's really what you're worried abou…

Exactly, and - assuming a mistake rather than maliciousness should have been the first take. There are 100's if not thousands of rules and regulations companies need to conform to and you should normally at a minimum give them a chance to fix this rather than to right away start yelling about them 'breaking the law', because no CEO that I'm aware of does so willingly (assuming they intend to stay in business and take…

It's also just so weird to suggest that HN should be policing this. They're fixated on NYC's law, but NYC is more lenient, at least statutorily, than Colorado, which has had this rule for over a year. But NYC and Colorado have different disclosure requirements, as will California and Washington. That's not just down to who needs to disclose (if you have fewer than 5 NYC employees, for instance, you're apparently not obligated to report) but also what you have to disclose.

It's not reasonable to suggest that HN should also run an HR practice. Again: totally fair to be irritated at a YC company who lists a noncompliant job. Go report them!

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#313

Post by jacquesm »

tptacek wrote: post #312
jacquesm wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, and - assuming a mistake rather than maliciousness should have been the first take. There are 100's if not thousands of rules and regulations companies need to conform to and you should normally at a minimum give them a chance to fix this rather than to right away start yelling about them 'breaking the law', because no CEO that I'm aware of does so willingly (assuming they intend to stay in business and take…

It's also just so weird to suggest that HN should be policing this. They're fixated on NYC's law, but NYC is more lenient, at least statutorily, than Colorado, which has had this rule for over a year. But NYC and Colorado have different disclosure requirements, as will California and Washington. That's not just down to who needs to disclose (if you have fewer than 5 NYC employees, for instance, you're apparently not…

I would be highly surprised if in any given startup in the first 24 months they were not at least in breach of several laws, especially in the HR domain. Usually this gets fixed during the first fundraising (during legal DD and for a regulated industry compliance review) but your average 3 people in a room start-up trying to get a product out the door will inevitably make mistakes like these - and worse. The GDPR is an easy one to mess up on, local employment law, employment contracts, especially when hiring people remote can be super tricky and if you are in a regulated industry my advice would be to hire a part time compliance officer (and probably an HR professional as well) as soon as you can afford it, it will save a whole raft of problems later on.

Regulators are usually more than willing to work with such young companies to get them to become compliant, rather than to throw the book at them at the first opportunity.

Given the state of the companies advertising on YC my assumption would be that they are too busy to get to either an MVP or to break even to be acutely aware of all of these compliance issues. One thing YC does is to help the companies with legal support, they probably could give some assistance with making sure that public job ads are compliant either by serving as a clearing house or to offer a set of written guidelines to ensure basic compliance, thus minimizing the risk of accidentally running afoul of the law.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#314

Post by tptacek »

jacquesm wrote: post #313
tptacek wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also just so weird to suggest that HN should be policing this. They're fixated on NYC's law, but NYC is more lenient, at least statutorily, than Colorado, which has had this rule for over a year. But NYC and Colorado have different disclosure requirements, as will California and Washington. That's not just down to who needs to disclose (if you have fewer than 5 NYC employees, for instance, you're apparently not…

I would be highly surprised if in any given startup in the first 24 months they were not at least in breach of several laws, especially in the HR domain. Usually this gets fixed during the first fundraising (during legal DD and for a regulated industry compliance review) but your average 3 people in a room start-up trying to get a product out the door will inevitably make mistakes like these - and worse. The GDPR is…

I mean, no, local regulators are not generally friendly to startups (I've experienced drama both in SFBA and in Chicagoland) --- but nobody is really being fined for these salary disclosure laws. :)

Companies should list their salary ranges! Like, regardless of the law!

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#315

Post by jacquesm »

tptacek wrote: post #314
jacquesm wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be highly surprised if in any given startup in the first 24 months they were not at least in breach of several laws, especially in the HR domain. Usually this gets fixed during the first fundraising (during legal DD and for a regulated industry compliance review) but your average 3 people in a room start-up trying to get a product out the door will inevitably make mistakes like these - and worse. The GDPR is…

I mean, no, local regulators are not generally friendly to startups (I've experienced drama both in SFBA and in Chicagoland) --- but nobody is really being fined for these salary disclosure laws. :) Companies should list their salary ranges! Like, regardless of the law!

> Companies should list their salary ranges! Like, regardless of the law!

Yes, definitely. It's to everybody's advantage. The assumption should be that if a company does not list its salary range and they're young that they don't know better and if they're older that you are about to get screwed.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#316

Post by pgodzin »

altdataseller wrote: post #3

Contact the company, and tell them they need to publish their salary range. Or else you'll report them to the NYC Attorney General (or whoever is in charge of this thing). Maybe they're ignorant. Or they're hoping noone calls them out on this. Either way, make sure they know the consequences if they don't publish it

It's actually enforced by the NYC Commission on Human Rights

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#317

Post by gregjor »

shanebellone wrote: post #302
gregjor wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have invested exactly as much in this thread as you and everyone else have. I don't have any investment in the topic. I don't care if companies post salaries in their job postings. I just pointed out that the OP made a couple of accusations, including the implication that YC was allowing their companies to break the law in HN job postings. OP did not provide any examples. > HN is completely capable of responding to…

I don't understand how you can say this: "without any supporting facts" Your comments sound angry, defensive, and accusatory.

What facts did the OP provide to support the claim that YC was allowing YC startups to post job ads without salary ranges, allegedly in violation of NYC law? Go back to the original post and point out the supporting facts. That's how I can say it.

I have no stake in this. I pointed out that OP leveled an accusation against YC and some "YC startups" claiming that their job postings did not include salary ranges "when law requires it." With not a single referenced job posting or example that just stands as an unfounded accusation.

Again, no need to try to infer my motives or emotional state. Either the OP made an unsupported accusation or they did not. Easy enough to determine that from the post without projecting or speculating about my emotional state.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#318

Post by eloff »

yamtaddle wrote: post #62
sampo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What Is Alternative Data and Why Is It Changing Finance?" https://builtin.com/fintech/alternative-data

TL;DR: Info gleaned from just about any source other than company statements and market data, used to guide investment choices. This includes stuff like satellite imagery, which has been used for a long time for these sorts of purposes, but also e.g. social media trends. I guess the news is that there's more of it happening now, because the practice itself isn't new.

Fascinating.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#319

Post by pandaman »

alexiaa wrote: post #102
indymike wrote: post #78

I've been in the job board / HR Tech space for a while, and every time I see a state pass a law requiring advertising the salary range, I'm reminded of a few facts: * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. * If you don't give the job board a salary range, they will use tools like salary.com or their own tools to sh…

> if you advertise a job respond to applicants quickly - as in within minutes of the application i mean it's nice to get a response as soon as possible but this seems completely unrealistic... it seems perfectly normal to expect a wait of a few days or weeks to me

Most people who respond to job ads are actively searching for jobs, they usually apply to multiple places simultaneously. If the other places responded quickly then, by the time you responded in a few days, the applicant could be far along the interviewing with several others and might not be considering your vacancy any more or prioritize it after everything else already in the pipeline. If you responded in a few weeks, the applicant might already have taken an offer.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#320

Post by 082349872349872 »

ok_dad wrote: post #280
dang wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes, that was a typo. Sorry! Now I have to figure out how to squeeze 'not' in there without going over 80 chars. Edit: ok, fixed now.

> without going over 80 chars The tyranny of the horse's ass, or rather the 60's terminal, strikes again. (reference: the width of train tracks are rumored to be based on the width of a horse's ass, from ye olden days.)

It goes back well past the 60's terminal, all the way to the size dollar bills had had, when punched cards were invented.
Post reply on HN