Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

news.ycombinator.com

301–310 of 1001 posts

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#301
post #24

Well, let's start by confronting and acknowledging the very strong case that we -- "we" here being the tech world in general, and the audience of this site -- bear a heavy burden of responsibility for it. It could be argued that it was all inevitable given the development of the Internet: development of social media, the movement online of commerce and other activities that used to heavily involve "incidental" social…

Not everyone has left the real world, only the people who got really sucked into the online/social media world. This can maybe seem like the whole world though, if you're in that bubble. Bars are still packed on the weekends, people still gather at churches, or gyms, or bowling leagues, or book clubs, or any number of other "IRL" activities of all kinds that are going on. You do have to make the effort to go out and…

Many of these activities have gotten extremely expensive or just died out in the majority of places. There's 2600 bowling alleys in the US compared to 4000 20 years ago. That's a decline of 35% without accounting for population. Last time I went to a bowling alley the price for a lane without drinks was 100 dollars for an hour and a half. This isn't even in a very high cost of living area. Besides a place like the gym can hardly be considered a place where people gather, most people just see it as something functional and would rather not be disturbed (I believe this has gotten 'worse').

I agree with the fact that it's exaggerated online but when you see these kinda numbers in the vast majority of activities which were affordable for most Americans not too long ago it's not solely to be blamed on individuals.

I believe in the majority of the country things will only get worse with how little value is placed on being involved in things for 'community'. People have gotten more anti-social because of social media (and just media in general).

Most tech workers won't be as impacted by this I assume, they can afford paying 200 dollars for bowling without thinking twice, same with many others of the upper middle class.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#303
post #169

Go to church. Data from various studies, including those from academic institutions and public health organisations, supports the idea that regular church attendance helps reduce loneliness by fostering social connections, support networks, and a sense of community. 1. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3551208/ 2. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/human-flourishing/20... 3. https://hrbopenresearch.org/ar…

"Just join a group" The whole point is that they're not doing that, not that they can't or that its really hard to do.

The problem is that being present in a group isn't the same thing as being part of it socially.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I posted on another subthread but I think this is largely an excuse. If you live in a typical suburb you have 15-20 families on your street. You can easily walk next door and chat or just say hello when you see someone outside. It takes initiative, which is the key thing that's missing. You either hide in your house or you get out and be sociable.

There's no question that there are 15-20 families within 300 yards of my house. But that group of people absolutely does not have a sense of shared anything but the road. And the fact is that this is true of the supermajority of suburban streets in the United States.

I don't disagree but 30 years ago the people in those kinds of neighborhoods did get out and talk to each other, did organize cookouts and other gatherings, and in general were sociable neighbors. The people changed.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (unwalkable towns where all of the houses are big garages in the front and no porches) You can turn the garage into a hangout spot. A neighbor has a full bar with communal table plus TV for sports and he opens up the garage door once a week on a schedule (Sunday game day or whatever depending on the season) and whenever he feels like it on work week evenings. As people pass by we invite them over and after a few mo…

This is something I absolutely would not feel comfortable doing unless I was warmly encouraged to join in, that's how I've been turned into a social outcast in my youth. I know some people who for a fact feel the same way. Maybe one solution is therapy, to help massage them out of their shell, to help them learn to be vulnerable and unafraid and friendly. But many of them refuse to go to therapy for whatever reason a…

Yep. I grew up in the era of ‘stranger danger’. We were explicitly taught as kids to fear strangers and socialising. We were taught “don’t be rude and butt in to conversations uninvited”, etc.

Still, something else is off. In the 90s, the Internet was a way to expand your social circle. So many friends made on IRC groups that moved into real life.

Nowadays yeah, commenting on Reddit and chatting to friends in message groups does feel like socialising, even though you might go two weeks without seeing anyone other than coworkers, cashiers (maybe) and Uber Eats delivery drivers.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#306
post #88

If you have young boys in your life then teach them that it's ok to feel and express their emotions, and as they get older that their sexual self need not be frightening and that sex can exist outside of narratives of domination.

This requires them to have spaces where they can express themselves sexually without the fear that male sexuality will be judged as inherently violent or oppressive. I've lost count of the times I've seen women praised while men were castigated, in the same space, for expressing any kind of honest sexual preference.

It's an annoyingly double-edged issue, and one that I believe neither side of the political spectrum (speaking in very broad strokes here) has addressed well at all.

Though I usually consider myself progressive (to an annoying degree to some), the progressive "answer" to young men right now on how to find friends and partners is essentially something like:

  > You should just be yourself!

  > But, if you aren't practically perfect and even slightly express your social and physical needs you are a monster.

  > But, even if you are perfect, we reserve the right to hate you based on experiences with other people of your gender, or because of your privilege, even though you probably have never felt it, and we're also allowed to make fun of you because of said privilege, since making fun of you is "punching up".

  > Also, you also should accept that you will *always* be considered a threat to half the population due to how you were born, and if you don't accept that or even try to prove the opposite, that makes you even more dangerous.

  > If you aren't happy with this you are an incel, and don't even mention the word "misandry", that's not a thing. The only way to change this is to either be gay or transition into a woman.
Obviously I'm employing a bit of hyperbole for emphasis and this is also me trying to empathize with what it's like being a boy right now despite lacking first-hand experience. Luckily, most women do not feel this way about men, but I've heard all of this said by my friends at one time or another (and I might have said something similar myself during my weaker moments, when I was upset).

Meanwhile the hardliners on the opposite side of the spectrum espouse the idea that actually men should be evil because it's manly. That women are lesser to them and that patriarchy is super cool actually. See Andrew Tate as an example, who has captured the ears of millions of teenage boys around the world. At first it's hard to comprehend why his ideology speaks to them, but you have to remember that most of them are just entering the time of their life where they have to figure themselves out, where they have to, for the first time in their life, find friendship, respect and companionship on their own outside of the family or the playground. And after all, everyone wants to be loved and respected in some way, and Andrew Tate offers them an answer: You can be an asshole and still be loved and respected, while the leftie answer tells them that you can be as perfect as you like, but you probably still won't be loved and respected, and if you fuck up, don't expect any grace.

And now the question is what should society actually do so that both young men and young women can find a harmonious place in it? I think really the only answer is to stop playing the blame game, stop trying to make one side the constant bad guy and scapegoat, try to comprehend that we are all equally human, and that whatever a person's gender is doesn't give you the right to be shitty to them. I don't know, maybe this is simply another utopian idea, of men and women living together in perfect unison, never being mean to each other. I think we should still strive to achieve some sort of balance, but sadly I don't really see an easy answer to this.

Sorry for this long rant, I've wanted to put this into words for a while. Occasionally I think about how bad it must be being a teenage boy right now, the thought scares me and I feel lucky not being one. Every time I read another woman saying that she's afraid of every man on the street walking in proximity to her, and every time it's dark out and I hear a man behind me and I get physically afraid, I think, what if I was a man and she was afraid for her life because of me? Just because I exist in the space next to her? Just because of a random coin-flip during my conception? And it feels awful. I don't want anyone to go through that.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#307
Step one might be to stop calling it the loneliness epidemic. Loneliness is an emotion, isolation is a condition, and we might even expect that if people felt lonely more often they would try harder to be social and actually be less isolated. This is also a network effect: my reaction to my loneliness affects someone else's loneliness if I go talk to them (or not).

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#308
post #268

I'll say the same thing that I always do. For some reason, it's not popular, hereabouts, but it's worked for me, for over 45 years. Get involved with volunteer/gratis work. Join an advocacy/charity group. Do stuff for free. HN members have really valuable skills that can make an enormous difference. Joining a volunteer organization brings together passionate, action-minded people that already share a common platform.…

Maybe dumb question but how does one "join a volunteer organization?" I tried a long time ago but got ghosted.

Not a dumb question.

Depends on the org.

Many large orgs have smaller chapters locally, but there are often regionally-relevant ones.

I’d start with personal passions, and work from there. It won’t really work, unless it’s something we care about.

Volunteer orgs tend to be fairly disorganized, and there’s usually a lot of lively personalities. If one seems too dysfunctional, try another. Don’t just go for one.

Also, it can take some time to get into the “inner circle.” Like any human society, trust takes time to build. We need to be willing to start small. Get to know the place. Figure out where we can make a difference.

I’ll bet that ChatGPT would be a great source of information.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#309
I mean this seriously: we need more cults.

Cults have been viciously slandered by mainstream information sources, often because lurid cult stories generate clicks and headlines. Of course some cults are abusive, just like some marriages are abusive. But we still think marriage is good in general.

If you think all cults are bad, you're implicitly against all religion, since every mainstream religion was once a cult. Being anti-cult is also profoundly un-American. America was built by cultists. Freedom of religion is literally the first principle stated in the Bill of Rights.

A cult is really just a professionally managed social environment. If you trust professionals like lawyers, doctors, or teachers with their respective duties, there's no reason in principle you shouldn't trust a cult leader to manage your social environment for you. Of course you should vet them, ask about their reputation, etc.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#310

People need to purposefully and intentionally do things. Sitting home on an app, watching TV is easy. There is no fear or rejection, there is no work to get out of the house, there is no risk. But there is also no reward. My thoughts on this are you need to have multiple roots into your community. This is something that you go to often and talk to people, become a regular, say hi. Think back to how your parents or gr…

> 2. Join a religious organization. Go to church, but also join the mens/womens group, join a bible studies class. Attend every week. So no atheists then?

It's not even just an atheist issue. You have to have spiritual beliefs that value the specific repetitive church rituals so as not to be bored out of your mind.
Post reply on HN