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Ask HN: How to overcome strong feelings of worthlesness and inadequacy

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Re: Ask HN: How to overcome strong feelings of worthlesness and inadequacy

#31
I went through something very much like you're going through several years ago. Over the course of about six months: Fiance left me. Lost my job. Relative died. Family dog died the next week. It was a mind-numbing, spirit crushing year of defeat. Eventually I decided to return to school with the intention of going to medical school, which for the next couple of years got my back on my feet. I learned that despite an abysmal first attempt at a CS degree (abysmal because of an utter lack of effort on my part) I was actually a much better student than pretty much any of my classmates. I regained my mojo, so to speak, leading up to a semester I took off in order to go code for a friend's company on a short-term contract that was supposed to give me enough cash to pay off some bills and finish my last semester. That was five years ago this month, and I still haven't finished that last semester.

What I have done, however, is rediscover how I enjoyed development. For me it was a combination of Ruby, the Ruby community, and the problems I worked on that did it, along with a healthy dose of perspective and maturity. For other people it might be python, javascript, or any other platform that became enjoyable, and some probably discover that they're happier not being developers at all. I still have a bit of Imposter Syndrome to deal with, but I cope. Today I recognize there are things I'm good at, things I'm bad at, and a lot of in-between. The things I'm bad at I make myself do more often so I can get better at them. The things I'm good at I teach to others to help them along.

I'm not dumping this out there as some sort of victory—more that you need to know that you're not the first to deal with problems like this, and you can come back from them.

If you want to be a hacker, for gods sake find some to hang out with. The best thing you can do for yourself when you're in a rut is have someone pull you out—offer yourself up as a free pair for someone doing what you want to learn to do. You're not getting paid anyway right now, so use the time to learn something. Go to language groups—preferably one with a large community friendly to new developers. Make friends in the tech community around you, and you are all but guaranteed that one of them will eventually have a job for you. In the meantime, work on OSS projects, and if you don't feel confident about your coding skills, help write tests or documentation. (BTW, its a poorly-kept secret that tons of OSS code is written by people who don't really know what they're doing—they just figure it out the hard way. So don't be shy about contributing.)

Get some exercise. Stop trying to work your way through SCIP and read something interesting. Most of all stop beating yourself up. Everyone deals with motivation problems at one point or another. And turn on the no-procrast feature of your HN profile.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome strong feelings of worthlesness and inadequacy

#32
post #17

What you see on HN/TechCrunch/whatever has a strong "success bias." What this means is that you only get to see/read success stories. But there are also many people just like yourself who are just starting out. Many have failures under their belts. Even the people who are successful today have failed in the past! It sounds like you're practicing too much "theory" and reading, instead of creating. This will make anyon…

Thank you. Yes I don't really know the feeling of what is like to create something, this kills me. I am constantly disappointed by my code, it sucks, it's really bad and that also makes me lose motivation whenever I try to build something, for some reason failure is a permanent constant and the fear that I am going to fail anyway keeps me from actually getting trough building something to the end...

Pretty much everything sucks when you start it. Its only by working on something sucky that you figure out A) this sucks and B) how to fix it. I've got a couple of gems that are embarrassingly bad in spots—they (mostly) get better over time.

Remember that software development is much much a procedural skill than a memorized skill. You have to do it, and you have to do it a lot, before you'll be great at it. Get started making the mistakes you need to make, and don't let them get you down. We've all got projects we didn't really get off the ground.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome strong feelings of worthlesness and inadequacy

#33
Walk away for a little while.

I've been programming and playing with a computer since I was around 10. There were a couple times in my life where I completely walked away because I wasn't sure that it was actually what I wanted to do. The first time was in high school. For three years I barely even used a computer. I took a course in Pascal but once I got my assignment done I was doing other things. Before high school I was pretty much glued to my computer 24/7 hacking this game or that.

The second time was a year into university. My freshman year I was on my computer hacking all the time. Learning new web tech etc. After my freshman year I pretty much got sick of everything computer related and even ended up not going to class and the next year dropping out completely.

The time away allowed me to explore new ideas and other worlds that I never did when I was glued to my computer all the time. Learning computer tech is not an easy thing, and it takes A LOT of time and dedication. Some people may make it look easy, but I think those people are in the minority.

After taking a year off I realized that I really missed working and creating stuff computer related. It gave me a lot of motivation to go back to university and start learning stuff again. Suddenly university was actually easy, who would have though listening in class and taking notes gets one 75% of the way there.

Leaving computers behind for a while was the best thing I ever did. I look back fondly at all the experiences I gained during those times.

If you find that there is a hole that programming will fill, you will know it. Picking it up again is easy. Its like learning to ride a bike, you may get a little sloppy but it comes back relatively fast.

Oh and stop visiting HN. It is good at depressing people. Realize that HN is like the rest of the news out there, it focuses mainly on the success stories. Not many people write articles about projects they never ended up finishing. Trust me everyone does it. I have around 20 half done projects. HN gets me depressed as well, and I think i'm a pretty competent programmer and had a chance to work on some awesome projects.

Your not alone... don't let the successes on HN get you down. Learn to program because you yourself get off on it, not because you care what anyone else is doing...

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome strong feelings of worthlesness and inadequacy

#34
Hey, OP.

I see a lot of good responses, and then sometimes people thanking the responders. (and I agree)

But really, I'd like to thank you. Thank you so much for writing this.

I feel the same way you do a lot, and I'd bet that there are others too who have these struggles.

I too had irrelevant experience and could not get even an entry level job because of the fucked up way our industry works. I've seen my classmates strike it rich at Google, and I see all the programming.reddit.com and HN posts of people's blogs and their wonky projects, and sometimes I feel like I could never do what they do, and I'll never get a job.

Right now, I'm about halfway up the curve of something happening for me. I wish I could tell you that it was quick, and I wish that I could tell you what the outcome is going to be for me... Maybe I'll let you know when I get there.

But I just wanted to thank you, and I wanted to tell you that there are a lot of people who feel this way too.

There are some who never feel this way, and I envy them.

The best response I've seen here is to pick a project that you can do in 3 weeks. But I'll go even further: pick one you can do in a day. Then a couple of those. When you've done a few, I'll bet that you are able to easily pick something that's 3 weeks, and get it done in 3 weeks, and feel damn satisfied that you can do something.

Good luck, and solidarity.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome strong feelings of worthlesness and inadequacy

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you.

Seeing "someone professional about your thoughts of suicide" is a good idea if the thoughts are very bad and pervasive and you are in danger to yourself or others, I think. But in the end they'll offer only two things: psychotherapy or psychotropic medication - is that a long-term, sustainable and smart solution?

Don't undervalue the benefits of some short-term usage of medication to get back on your feet! I'm a little surprised that no one in these replies has suggested it, but please do consider it - it is a very smart solution! You'll feel better and might make some progress on your goals and then feel better about yourself again. And, heck, even if it is long-term, that's fine, too, don't let these folks be a judge of that for you.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome strong feelings of worthlesness and inadequacy

#36
First, there is nothing to be ashamed about for being an enterprise programmer. So, you've been working as an assembler. Now is the time to look at the tools themselves.

First, go back and review the basics of web programming. https://code.google.com/edu/submissions/html-css-javascript/... is a good start. It is probably below your level, but do it anyway. Get some confidence. :) Do the same with a decent book on your programming language. Get an understanding from the ground up. Make sure you can program 100 lines without looking anywhere.

Next, start learning your tools. Were you using jQuery? Oracle? Start delving into what those tools really are. Watch screencasts and follow along, typing the exact code in as you go. Make a basic to-do application in the technologies that are on your resume. Don't be afraid to look on the internet, but there's one rule.

No copy and paste.

No, every time you find an answer, you're going to type it in directly. Every line you type in, you're going to think about what each thing means, and if you don't know, you look it up in the documentation.

Learn how to write a login page, how to connect to a random single signon. How to logoff. How to write each piece of the app. You will soon have a simple application. It's not much, but it's yours. Write unit tests and integration tests. If you think code looks messy, clean it up. This is your template.

Now, add some ajax. See how others are doing it, but again type it in yourself. Put in all the features you want to learn. Keep updating the tests, both front end and back end.

Now, try implementing the front end in backbone and jQuery, or whatever front end technology you want to try first. Keep the back end the way it is, and keep the look of the front end how it is. Just port the code over.

Now choose a back end you're interested in. Port the back end. You know how to make the simple case already, it's just a matter of learning how the new one works. THEN you take your todo app and start making things from that, now that you know how everything works basically.

Now, for interviews, take a month off and do all this. (Block reddit and use aggressive noprocrast on HN.) Then go back and interview for mid level positions. Many coders you are competing against are in the same position as you are, but you've gone back and taken the time to really learn your set of tools.

I really believe the difference between a bad and mediocre web programmer, in many cases, is about 100 hours of dedicated training about how the web works, and how their programming language works. The difference between a mediocre and a B- programmer is being able to rattle off the basics really quickly and knowing their toolset.

Getting to the A level, that takes more time. But you can do that as you have a job. :)

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome strong feelings of worthlesness and inadequacy

#37
"Depressed because I feel worthless compared to all the amazing hackers of the HN community"

Someone is lying to you inside your head. They are saying, you are a worthless human being because you are mediocre/sucked/failed at x. "You aren't good enough" is a tool used by Satan to destroy good men.

I recommend you read "Wild at Heart" by John Eldridge. I'll send you my copy if you'd like. I was going through a very similar time, only I felt worthless because I wasn't a successful entrepreneur like take-your-pick-from-Tech-Crunch. That book set me on a new path that has made my life so much richer and has freed me from the depression of failure, and allowed me to enjoy what I do again.

I'll be praying for you brother, God bless.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome strong feelings of worthlesness and inadequacy

#38
post #17

What you see on HN/TechCrunch/whatever has a strong "success bias." What this means is that you only get to see/read success stories. But there are also many people just like yourself who are just starting out. Many have failures under their belts. Even the people who are successful today have failed in the past! It sounds like you're practicing too much "theory" and reading, instead of creating. This will make anyon…

Thank you. Yes I don't really know the feeling of what is like to create something, this kills me. I am constantly disappointed by my code, it sucks, it's really bad and that also makes me lose motivation whenever I try to build something, for some reason failure is a permanent constant and the fear that I am going to fail anyway keeps me from actually getting trough building something to the end...

I don't really know the feeling of what is like to create something.

Take a cooking class.

I'm absolutely serious about this. You learn to build things by building things, and you build things by following recipes, recipes that are very slightly above your skill level, but no more. Go get some recipes, and use the techniques they tell you to use, and build some pancakes, and eat them. [1] Then you will "know the feeling of what it is like to create something." Something tasty.

I can hear you already: "My pancakes are just pancakes! They are not amazing and original pancakes." This is true. You need to get over that. Trying to amaze yourself is generally a waste of time. You can't do it consistently – that's what "amazing" means: something that doesn't happen every day. If what you want to do is create things, lots of things, every day, you've got to realize that it's not going to feel amazing while you're doing it. It's going to feel normal.

But: It will be tasty. Oh, there are worse fates than being so good at making pancakes that you can make them without even thinking. For one thing, other people will eventually start talking about your amazing pancakes, and even though you'll know in your heart that they're flattering you - hey, they're just the same pancakes that you've made a hundred times, from a recipe, with only a minor tweak or two - it will still be gratifying.

And maybe in thirty years you'll be the next Anthony Bourdain, and you'll be out drinking one night and suddenly you'll look at yourself and your own life and be amazed: You remember starting off with the pancakes, and you just kept trying a little more every day, and then there was the day you got a job cranking out those pancakes on the line, and man was that an educational experience, but now it's years later and you're shocked to find that you're some kind of breakfast legend, people line up for your amazing cooking, and at that moment you'll actually be amazed at yourself for everything you have accomplished. You'll be amazed for at least five minutes, maybe even ten minutes, depending on how much you've been drinking. [2]

Then you'll wake up the next morning and go back to work, just like we all do.

Anyway, programming. Throw SICP away and try something like Zed Shaw's Learn Python the Hard Way, something with a lot of exercises. Do all the exercises. Then do some of those programming-contest-type problems. Do little problems, ten-minute problems, thirty-minute problems. Practice the art of small victories.

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[1] No, do not use a pancake mix. That's like copy-and-paste.

[2] Incidentally, alcohol is a depressant, so don't think I'm seriously recommending it to someone who is already depressed. Coffee! I meant coffee!

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome strong feelings of worthlesness and inadequacy

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing "someone professional about your thoughts of suicide" is a good idea if the thoughts are very bad and pervasive and you are in danger to yourself or others, I think. But in the end they'll offer only two things: psychotherapy or psychotropic medication - is that a long-term, sustainable and smart solution?

We've already got a written statement that exhibits most of the classic warning signs of depression. Does the poor guy need to submit it in triplicate before you'll take him seriously? The OP should worry about the long run, but only after taking every necessary measure to get through the short run. Meanwhile, whether or not any course of treatment is a long-term, sustainable, smart solution depends on the patient, o…

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