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Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?

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Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?

#31

Post by scotty79 »

gerickson wrote: post #28
azakai wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might have, but it is very likely it would have been published in an academic paper anyhow (like it actually has). And in any case, no one actually reads software patents (lawyers tell you not to!), so even if it was patented but not published or otherwise documented, no one would have known about it. While the PageRank patent is definitely not a trivial patent - unlike the vast majority of software patents - it s…

>> "it still isn't an example of a patent used for good" What do you mean by good, then? It has generated lots of cash for Google and thus provided lots of jobs.

It would still generate and provide the same even if it was not patented.

Unless you believe that it was Google patent on page rank algorithm that prevented all other companies to get better at doing search.

Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?

#32

Post by stickfigure »

gerickson wrote: post #28
azakai wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might have, but it is very likely it would have been published in an academic paper anyhow (like it actually has). And in any case, no one actually reads software patents (lawyers tell you not to!), so even if it was patented but not published or otherwise documented, no one would have known about it. While the PageRank patent is definitely not a trivial patent - unlike the vast majority of software patents - it s…

>> "it still isn't an example of a patent used for good" What do you mean by good, then? It has generated lots of cash for Google and thus provided lots of jobs.

Patents are always good for the patent holder. The question is whether or not the patent is good for society, and justifies the patent enterprise in the first place.

To this, the only major point of consideration should be: Without patent protection, would this technology have been developed anyways?

For the vast majority of patented software, the answer is yes. Probably including pagerank and mp3. The patent process brings no value to society and therefore shouldn't be enforced by society.

In the case of drug discovery & development, the answer clearly different. Patents make sense.

Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?

#34

Post by windsurfer »

j_baker wrote: post #24

It's a bit naive to try to judge patents in terms of some dichotomy between good patents and bad patents. In principle, patents aren't really good or evil. They're just part of running a business. That said, the patent system itself can have good or evil effects on society.

Patents in general are "bad" in my opinion, but they can be used for good. Just like guns may be considered "bad" in general, there are legitimate uses for them, and they can be used for good.

The OP even says "used for good".

Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?

#35

Post by arctangent »

I find this question very ambiguous. Either software patents (or patents in general) are a good idea or they are not a good idea.

Asking whether good things have been done with proceeds from licensing software (or other) patents is a different question entirely, and inevitably leads to the answer: yes. (Of course some patent holders have used the income to do good things!)

Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?

#36

Post by azakai »

keypusher wrote: post #30
azakai wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, software patents cannot protect you from patent trolls. Patent trolls by definition do not produce any actual products. They only sue. Any patents you have are therefore no defense against them. A worrying development is trolling by proxy - a real company selling its patents to a patent troll. This allows the real company to extort money through its patents, without the risk of a countersuit, since the patent tro…

I believe he is talking about the kind of mutually assured destruction that keep companies like Apple, Microsoft, Google, and IBM from suing each other. They all hold a ton of patents, and while they may infringe on each others patents from time to time, they keep it to a minimum and nobody pursues it due to the possibility of retaliatory patent action where both parties lose. Much like the Cold War.

Yes, perhaps that's what he meant, and he said "patent trolls" by mistake.

In any case, that is not really a case of patents being put to good use. They might help you specifically, as a defensive measure, but only because of all the bad uses of patents overall.

Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?

#37

Post by mugsydean »

Let me first say I hate most patents, but they are alowing patents for stupid things, like a rectagular touch screen phones. Or maybe the patent lenght should be shorter, so as to give an advantage, and incentive, but not to halt progress.

Yet, It seems that Google's secret sauce search algorithm made lots of cash for Stanford to help continue to educate and incubate more ideas like this. Without Googles edge of a protected formula, the relatively "non evil" company may not have grown to offer us free services like google voice, gmail, google docs, and a free OS.

Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?

#38

Post by tobylane »

The good patents are the silent ones, the ones broken by people who have never known of the patent, who describe it in some other but equally unique, novel and non-trivial way. Along the same lines, Red Hat (and others, even self-employed full time open source coders) may talk about implementing something useful, but not make reference to the patent. I'm sure we're heard of something that was patented for OSS, but not as a patent, as a program feature.

Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?

#39

Post by Vivtek »

mugsydean wrote: post #37

Let me first say I hate most patents, but they are alowing patents for stupid things, like a rectagular touch screen phones. Or maybe the patent lenght should be shorter, so as to give an advantage, and incentive, but not to halt progress. Yet, It seems that Google's secret sauce search algorithm made lots of cash for Stanford to help continue to educate and incubate more ideas like this. Without Googles edge of a pr…

That's not a patent, it's a trade secret. The difference is that if I independently invent a search algorithm that happens to be the same as Google's, they don't have the right to sue me.

I personally find secrecy just fine.

Re: Ask HN: What are some examples of software patents used for good?

#40

Post by Gustomaximus »

Not all companies are like this. I work for a company that believes enforcement of patents stifles innovation. And looking for the next innovation and gaining a first mover advantage is much more important than spending time and resources protecting past ones.Plus the end user is much better off in this market. We will patent to protect ourselves from other companies, but not enforce it on others.

However this needs an idealistic leader and wont work large scale across markets so while it annoys me when I see these spiderwebs of who is suing who, I really put the blame at the fault of the patent system. I don't know what the answer is but it seems something is seriously broken.

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