Regarding years of experience this quote from Code Complete book could be useful "If you have not learned the language/framework in 1-2 years, more years won't help you" :)
Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation
31–37 of 37 posts
Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation
#32If you haven't already, read this article by our own "patio11": http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ Like others said, be nice but firm. Once during an interview, I was told that my desired salary range was above the top of the band for that job. I said with a big smile: "That's not my problem!" The interviewer said "You're right!"
I ran into this once. I decided that I knew well enough what I was worth so when they asked what salary I was looking for, I gave a number.
They said, "oh that's outside the band for this position" so I replied, "that's unfortunate" and asked what we can do about it. There was a quick back and forth ("would you be willing to come down?" etc.), then I forget whether I suggested it or she did but I found out there was a more senior title with a higher salary band.
So that's how we solved the issue: after confirming with a VP, I got a fancier title and the salary I wanted, they got me in the right bucket on their comp grid.
The point is that you shouldn't walk away nor should you budge just because they say "that's outside the salary band. Maybe they're looking at the wrong band.
Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks, I might try to get the title back after the final number is done.
Don't address one item and then move to another. Be upfront about all of your concerns at once. If I moved up on salary and then had a prospect re-counter on title, I'd pull the offer.
Thanks for your advice. I sent my concerns before receiving an offer letter now. Before I was hoping to get a first number from them, but it would definitely cause them more bureaucratic resistance to change offers.
Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation
#34Please tell me you didn't share your previous salary with HR :) Also 8 vs 10 years of experience is not a significant difference so that HR can BS you. They are moving quick on you because you're a solid candidate, and they are trying to close quick. Don't let HR BS you, once you get an offer, counter them at 10-20% of where you want to be, or simply give them a range that you feel comfortable with. You are the scarc…
Just wondering, how would you respond when being asked about your previous salary? I'm asking because I'm currently in negotiation with some companies, and being asked for your previous salary seems to be common practice.
"I'm not comfortable sharing my current salary. I look forward to this opportunity to add value to your team, and I want it to be a big step forward for me in terms of both responsibility and compensation."
If pressed on current salary:
"I'm not comfortable sharing proprietary information about how my current employer pays people."
If pressed on desired salary:
"I don't have a specific number in mind, and I look forward to hearing what you suggest since you know much better than I do what value someone with my skill set and experience will bring to your team."
Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
> [...] give them a range that you feel comfortable with. A side note: I don't get why providing a range is of any benefit, and I'm not talking about this particular situation. I wouldn't expect the other side to offer the top bracket if they know that I would accept the position for the lower bracket (I wouldn't specify the unacceptable lower bracket salary). What is in the setting that I don't see?
Giving them a range might not be the best idea, but if they are really pushing you for your salary, it's a good idea to just look up market value for your position and give them some sense of what you want. Another approach would be to ask HR for what their range is, and you can confirm that it is within your expectations. Mind you, this is not the final negotiation, just a ballpark of where they can make you an offe…
> A range gives you some flexibility, whereas giving them [...] single value, immediately anchors you to it.
This is the part that I don't see: what flexibility? Except maybe for negotiating more paid holiday, but this seems to be specific to US, as the rest of Western world has guaranteed holiday by labour law.
Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation
#36Update: I just sent my proposal in, with salary and market calculations along with a request to keep the higher title. Ironically, they gave me their 10-15% formula as a lowball tactic, but once I did the calculations this way it came out slightly higher than market. This was because of differences in benefits and net savings from cost of living. I guess the question is now, how can I ask for higher than market? I'm…
I don't mean this in a disrespectful way but I think you are too hung up on market vs non-market. Just decide what is a good number for you to quit your current job and ask for that . If you get it, take it. If not, move on. Don't make it too difficult for you.
You are right, and I felt much better after calculating the exact number I needed and left it with them.
Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation
#37The biggest leverage you can have in any negotiation is a willingness to walk away. If you negotiate from that perspective, you'll always be in a position of strength.
Decide if you are willing to walk away. If you passed the interviews with no missed questions and the company has already invested a lot of time into you, it would be idiotic of them to pass on you for a measly extra 15%. Think about it. They'd have to spend hours/days/weeks sourcing more candidates, who then would drop off at various stages of the interview funnel. This process is costly, wasting the time of recruiters, HR people, engineers, management etc etc.
There is a real dollar value on that time. On top of that, costs like healthcare and on-boarding you into the team would cost tens of thousands. 15% is nothing compared to the total cost of hiring and ramping up an employee - especially relative to the value that you would produce (which is presumably a multiple of your salary).
So decide if you're willing to walk away, decide what compensation you want, and be firm yet reasonable/friendly. If they don't budge, then simply walk away and I bet they will scramble to find a way to keep you. On the off chance that they don't, then don't feel bad; you did your best and you probably don't want to work somewhere that underpays you relative to the market anyway.