Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#251

Post by dang » Mon, May 16, 2022, 5:53 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #224

dang wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear that a reply like this can come across as dismissive, but you have to understand that people have been saying that the quality of HN has been falling ever since HN started 15 years ago. There's a strong bias (if not several biases combining) to feel like it's always getting worse. Since people are saying this all the time, it's hard to give much weight to a bare statement along those lines. Positive generaliza…

> people have been saying that the quality of HN has been falling ever since HN started 15 years ago I agree with them. I’ve been sticking with it for these 15 years, but I’m sure you’re aware of a certain site that does a pretty good job characterizing how the comments on many of the most popular stories have devolved. > Internet forums are super weird and there are limits to what one can do about it. I wish it were…

> You can do anything you want to make it fit your vision

That is definitely not true. Sure we could make arbitrary changes, many of which could easily kill the site. But the set of changes that can be made to make HN better fit its vision is far from obvious.

> I’m sure you’re aware of a certain site that does a pretty good job characterizing how the comments on many of the most popular stories have devolved

No, what site is that?

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#252

Post by otterley » Mon, May 16, 2022, 6:02 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #251

otterley wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people have been saying that the quality of HN has been falling ever since HN started 15 years ago I agree with them. I’ve been sticking with it for these 15 years, but I’m sure you’re aware of a certain site that does a pretty good job characterizing how the comments on many of the most popular stories have devolved. > Internet forums are super weird and there are limits to what one can do about it. I wish it were…

> You can do anything you want to make it fit your vision That is definitely not true. Sure we could make arbitrary changes, many of which could easily kill the site. But the set of changes that can be made to make HN better fit its vision is far from obvious. > I’m sure you’re aware of a certain site that does a pretty good job characterizing how the comments on many of the most popular stories have devolved No, wha…

I don’t know that the changes would “kill the site” but I think it depends on how popular you want it to continue to be. Both public fora and exclusive clubs coexist in this world. I doubt one can have a truly open forum that has the decorum/behavioral norms and intellectual rigor of an exclusive club, though.

I'm somewhat surprised you're not familiar with n-gate!

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#253

Post by the_only_law » Mon, May 16, 2022, 7:26 PM UTC

brabel wrote: post #64

CoastalCoder wrote: post #13

For in-person discussions, we should probably factor in the nature and depth of the relationship. For example, if I'm just chatting with someone at the park, I don't expect them to welcome a serious critique of views they espouse. But if I've known that person for a long time, and we're invested in each other, then I'm more likely to challenge or at least discuss touchy matters. Internet discussions, depending on the…

There's also the fact that when you're online there's a zero risk of being punched in the face when you say something the other person is likely to find unpleasant.

I’d argue even more than physical violence, irl you risk making yourself a total pariah a lot more.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#254

Post by the_only_law » Mon, May 16, 2022, 7:28 PM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #178

analyst74 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a very logical person who developed social intelligence much later in life. One very surprising thing I noticed, unthinkable to my younger self, is that many people only engage with people they are interested in. If upon initial judgement and they find you not interesting, they basically tune you out, and won't attempt to find out what interesting things you have to say.

> If upon initial judgement and they find you not interesting, they basically tune you out, and won't attempt to find out what interesting things you have to say. if they find you not interesting then why would they hang around? They've already made the decision. To them, you'll have nothing interesting to say ever.

> if they find you not interesting then why would they hang around?

I currently have the issue of appearing interesting, but not actually being so in reality. It’s shocking how many people approach me these fast, but for the most party anything will fall apart outside highly casual acquaintances.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#255

Post by the_only_law » Mon, May 16, 2022, 7:29 PM UTC

tlb wrote: post #43

otterley wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HN is a strongly self-selected group of people, with rules against bad-faith arguments I'd love to see those rules enforced someday. There are plenty of examples of such arguments to be found here.

Please downvote or flag them.

I’ll try, but there’s no way if the core argument expresses a sentiment a large enough portion of the thread participants agree with.

I think there’s very little traditional trolling on HN (you likely won’t hardly ever see it without showdead on). The problem is when you open a thread that blatantly off topic (but it’s ok because nowadays we play really loose with submission guidelines, and use more general guidelines to invalidate more specific ones)

The problem is these make it onto the front page, and it’s just disingenuous flamewarring all the way down. You’ll never beat that.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#256

Post by the_only_law » Mon, May 16, 2022, 7:32 PM UTC

puffoflogic wrote: post #104

tlb wrote: post #11

HN is a strongly self-selected group of people, with rules against bad-faith arguments. But you can find groups like that in real life too. The special thing about online is that when an obscure topic comes up, someone from the 0.0001% of people with deep knowledge of that subject can chime in. That dynamic basically never happens IRL, because you need a million eyeballs. Like, outside of NASA, where would you encoun…

The only bad faith argument I've ever seen on HN is calling any argument you disagree with and can't refute a "bad-faith argument".

You clearly haven’t been reading then.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#257

Post by lazide » Tue, May 17, 2022, 12:52 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #236

tetris11 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps related - The 1% Rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule?wprov=sfla1 > In Internet culture, the 1% rule is a general rule of thumb pertaining to participation in an internet community, stating that only 1% of the users of a website add content, while the other 99% of the participants only lurk.

It would be nice if this could be quantified...given such a distribution is readily determinable and given websites already collect so much data anyway.

It can be, and is - but generally consider trade secrets and not disclosed.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#258

Post by warrenm » Tue, May 17, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

I've found exactly the opposite of your hypothesis - pretty much everyone I interact with online is (withing some small margin of error) identical in person

The difference, I've seen (and personally undergo) online vs IRL is that I have time to source and reword statements that aren't inherent in "real-time" voice communication

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#259

Post by warrenm » Tue, May 17, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

CoastalCoder wrote: post #13

For in-person discussions, we should probably factor in the nature and depth of the relationship. For example, if I'm just chatting with someone at the park, I don't expect them to welcome a serious critique of views they espouse. But if I've known that person for a long time, and we're invested in each other, then I'm more likely to challenge or at least discuss touchy matters. Internet discussions, depending on the…

I addressed this a few years ago in a blog post (submitted to HN today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31413840)

>Asymmetric communication is wonderful – it’s how we learn of ancient peoples, news stories from around the world, etc. But it has a major drawback, too.

>Because asymmetric communication takes less effort on the part of the communicator, they can refuse to engage with their audience in a focused fashion. Indeed, that is the benefit of being able to write: being able to reach an audience without having to focus on them while you are talking.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#260

Post by sim7c00 » Tue, May 17, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

fear / insecurities makes people different imo. not sure which environment is the one with more or less because the workings are quite complex. people irl can behave crappy due to insecurities, but lack of fear or reprecussions makes people act mean online. insecurities might make people want to look bigger online too while they might make people more timid (not in all cases?) offline.

i know people who are generally grumpy and mean irl who are really happy and friendly on their online time, and vice versa. dont think its one way or the other, as people process emotions and stuff differently. there might be generalizations you can make or feel you observe, but imo they break down into these contradictions when looking at unique individuals. perhaps a psychologist has a better answer...