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Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

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241–250 of 338 posts

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#241
post #119

I've been using Fortran 90/95 extensively over the last few years, for numerical simulation of quantum systems. I think there's a lot of misconceptions about Fortran (which is partly due to Fortran 77, with its punchcard format and spaghetti code). Fortran 90 is basically a different language, and is actually reasonably modern. I see it as significantly more suitable for numerical programming than C/C++. Fortran is c…

HPF (high performance fortran) is quite nice actually. I was very impressed when we played with it in a parallel programming class I took years ago.

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has a dependency on the bash runtime. And coreutils. And often moreutils, or various others.

Often with better performance than Python or Perl

The only times I've ever had a bash script run faster than Perl or Python is when it has handed most of the work off to another utility (eg written in C).

The actual bash processing bits seem much slower than Perl or Python.

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#243
post #21

On a daily basis I work with C and a handful of modern languages. I do reach for Common Lisp and Prolog sometimes, so I'll count those. Common Lisp : many, many great things about lisp have been incorporated into modern languages, but CL still has a few unique things, and the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It's less compelling than it was 10 years ago but some problems are expressed more wonderfully in C…

Although I haven't used Forth much since the time I implemented it on the Atari ST and used it for a commercial product, I still like to think of myself as a Forth person. It continues to influence aspects of my programming style, and can be useful to have known well in surprising circumstances; for example, I once solved a thorny problem in some rather complex XSLT by adapting a technique that's quite normal in Forth, but would be considered downright weird in many other languages. So yes, we are different :-)

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#244
My favourite language in FreePascal's dialect of ObjectPascal (which is largely derived from the work Borland did with Delphi, which itself is largely derived from Borland's Turbo Pascal).

It has all the benefits of a modern language -- strong typing, generics, operator overloading, objects, metaclasses, dynamic arrays, interfaces, RTTI, dynamic dispatch, method pointers, type helpers, true modules, fast compile times, preprocessor directives, pretty large set of libraries from the community, etc -- and all the benefits of a compiled language -- compiles to pretty small binaries, small memory footprint at runtime, tight control over memory allocation and layout, trivial ability to shell out to assembler when necessary, etc. It builds to pretty much every platform under the sun -- Mac, Windows, Linux, Android, iOS, MSDOS, OS/2, BeOS, Netware, you name it.

Some of its features are features I've rarely seen in 'fashionable' languages. For example the way classes and metaclasses work in FreePascal is great. You can pass classes around by value, constructors can be virtual, even static methods can be virtual.

In many ways it's really a better C++. For example, what I just said about metaclasses. It has native support for strings. The declaration part of a module (unit interface) is separate from its implementation, so it's easy to get an overview of what is exported from a module, but it's in the same file and is a first-class-citizen of the language, unlike C++ header files. The syntax also makes a lot more sense than C-like languages. For example, there's an explicit keyword to introduce a function, and constructors are named rather than using the type name. (These don't sound like interesting features until you're trying to navigate the source and you find that searching for a method becomes far easier, or you're trying to copy/paste a class and you find you don't have to worry about renaming constructors, stuff like that.) It doesn't even have to link in a libc, it has its own RTL. (It can link in a libc if you want to use some C or C++ libraries with it though.)

There's aspects of it that are a bit crufty from having decades of legacy, but it's probably still better than C++ in that regard.

I don't really know why Pascal derivatives haven't taken off more.

At work I use Dart, which has many of the benefits I listed above, but in the form of a GC'ed VM-hosted language. Dart's a much newer language, though, so regardless of its usage it's probably too early to know if it will end up in the "unfashionable" category. Dart has all kinds of cool features like the ".." operator for chaining, the "??=" operator for assignment-if-null, the "with" feature for doing composition rather than inheritance, etc. Also very readable.

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#245

My dad uses and has used BASIC. He's not a teacher, nor a hobbyist. He writes bank software. In BASIC. For forty years. At the same company. UBS, Bank of China, and other names all run this massive million(s)-line BASIC codebase, that he almost singlehandedly wrote, on minicomputers[1] powered by OpenVMS. With it, according to my father, they process billion dollars worth of transactions and other facets of their bus…

What dialect of BASIC?

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#246
post #228

Im in the EDA industry and use Tcl. It's easily the worst language I've ever used and I firmly believe that the entire semiconductor industry is being held back years due to the stranglehold of Tcl. Everything in Tcl is a string. This is just one example of the idiocy of this language.

Even as a fan of rich type systems, I can think of much worse design choices for a language than "everything is a string". "Everything is an object whose class is determined at runtime" comes to mind.

And as a former Tcl dabbler, that's also definitely not the first thing I'd pick on. `upvar` is a far more egregious violator of sanity, and I seem to recall that parsing optional arguments to a function is quite the adventure.

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you get to use PHP 7 and one of the more modern frameworks modern PHP is actually quite pleasant to work with.

No, the rotten and dangerous stuff remains rotten and dangerous. https://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/41fqib/it_is_so_sim...

Oh brother

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#248
post #179

A close friend still uses Fox Pro to do data analysis sort of work in a trading company. Every time I see him working masterfully, I feel I should learn it someday.

I used Foxpro for about 15 years, until 2011 when I got laid off from that job. At one point I experimented with MS-SQL and came close to sacrificing the CDs on a funereal pyre because it was just. so. horrendously. slow. compared to Foxpro.

VFP had a slick little way of letting you indirectly address variables and pop them into a SQL statement or other VFP code, and they would evaluate at runtime. Later when I was learning Java & Javascript I was quite annoyed that I was not able to do this.

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#250
post #101

Although I mainly write code in Python, JavaScript and Go, I have a SaaS web application that was written in the early 2000s using ColdFusion (CFML) which I still support (started at v5 and now runs on v8). In the mid to late nineties (and early 00s) it was one of the best ways to write web applications (it was actually the first Application server as far as I know). But today is 2016 and ColdFusion is one of the lea…

Hate to say it, but you'll want to upgrade to a later version than 8. There are a lot of exploits out for 8. Oh, that was the other crappy angle for ColdFusion I forgot to mention in my post - the $1500-and-up license fees.

To be fair, Lucee (formerly Railo) is a great open-source implementation of CFML.
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